leaving children on their own?

poet123

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I disagree. Ironically, it seems the basis of your individual decisions are exactly the same, but I suspect you have never encountered a very mature 12 year old. To me it reads like your assumptions and experiences of children at 12 are how FBaby's children were by 9.

FBaby - I am in a similar position to you with kids and their maturity so whilst I agree with you completely, I know many won't. I have a good friend who used to offer my daughter a 'tea or coffee' when she went round at 10 or 11, because she said she chatted to her like an adult, forgetting she was so young. Bizarrely she was only about a year older than her oldest at the time. I don't see it in my children and their closest friends when they're with us, but friends, neighbours, teachers etc all do.

As an aside, from my experience of secondary school so far, I actually think 12/13 isn't an ideal age to start leaving children alone, because some go through an incredibly immature, silly stage at this age. The Head of our local school said kids generally regress in Y8 or 9. My husband has only been shocked at kids party behaviour twice: firstly the boys at my daughter's 6th birthday party (who were rude to adults, used bad language and showed poor table manners) and secondly at DD1's 12th birthday party when he said the girls seemed incredibly immature (giggly, which seems to sum young teens up but is more expected from 4 year olds.)

I have encountered many a mature 12 year old, which is why that is the age I worked off. My decisions are based on my own judgement as are those by FBaby, and also the RSPCC guidelines, which Fbaby does not take account of.

My children were probably mature enough at nine to be left, but I wouldn't have done it for the reasons I have already outlined ad nauseum; those outside their control or my control.

I haven't had your experience of such behaviour when starting Secondary school and I have had four children go through various types of school. My experience has been quite the opposite, they have stepped up a gear to meet the increased expectation. The dip in behaviour usually comes in years 8/9 when they have settled in and are sure of their place in the school world.

FBaby

Thank you Lunar Eclipse for your kind words. I think what has surprised me most is the difference between the extreme reaction of some here compared to the reaction I get in 'real' life.

Many people, responsible people, people in authority, know that my son comes home from school on the bus and on occasions is on his own for a little while (which just to be clear, is occasionally, when his sister has an after school activity, and no longer than 1/2 hour, maybe one hour on one or two occasions in the last 6 months) and yet I've never once had a comment made about it, not even a hint. I am talking about 25 people if no more.

I can only assume that it really does down to knowing the child. One of my friends who often has my boy over to her house (the boys are in the same class) said that she wouldn't be able to trust her son to take the bus on his own (or with my son and two other friends), because she couldn't trust he would do as told, but that she can see how reliable my son is. His dad (my ex) who tends to be more protective than I am would definitely have said something if he was concerned (we are respectful to each other but certainly not friendly) or his partner who I'm sure would jump on the opportunity to show that I am a neglectful mum!

Maybe I should invite Poet over for coffee

FBaby

My decisions are based on my own judgement as are those by FBaby.

Except that I don't tell others that their decisions put their children at risk when I don't even know these children myself.

also the RSPCC guidelines, which Fbaby does not take account of.

Here we go again, making another false statement! I do take them into account (at least I assume you mean NSPCC!). I have considered my son's age, his level of maturity and understanding, the place where he is on his own and how long he is left on his own. Most importantly, I have followed their advice : You are the best judge of your child's level of maturity and responsibility

poet123

FBaby wrote: »

Except that I don't tell others that their decisions put their children at risk when I don't even know these children myself.

I am entitled to my opinion. Leaving a nine year old is putting him at risk.

FBaby wrote: »

Here we go again, making another false statement! I do take them into account (at least I assume you mean NSPCC!). I have considered my son's age, his level of maturity and understanding, the place where he is on his own and how long he is left on his own. Most importantly, I have followed their advice : You are the best judge of your child's level of maturity and responsibility

Selective quoting. Earlier up the tread is quote from the pdf put out by the NSPCC(!) and they don't advise leaving a child under 12.

I haven't said you were neglectful, you don't come across that way at all.

Lunar_Eclipse

poet123 wrote: »

I haven't had your experience of such behaviour when starting Secondary school and I have had four children go through various types of school. My experience has been quite the opposite, they have stepped up a gear to meet the increased expectation. The dip in behaviour usually comes in years 8/9 when they have settled in and are sure of their place in the school world.

... which I suppose means some will experience it in Y7. Maybe it's related to individual stages of puberty and maturity, whereas I assumed it was linked to increased levels of personal freedom many children have when moving to secondary school. (My own daughter went from being driven to school, to taking 3 trains each way for example.)

Lunar_Eclipse

FBaby wrote: »

I can only assume that it really does down to knowing the child.

I think this is it.

I have become increasingly aware of differences in children over the past two years in particular. I car pool with a neighbour; we have children in the same class at school. The maturity/responsibility gap between the two 11 year olds is huge. My daughter reminds him about everything all the time. He forgets about school trips, letters, his lunch box, school bag, coat, homework, PE kit etc every week. I know it's common and thus normal, yet neither of my children have ever done that.

Children mature at very different rates and personal responsibilty spans a wide range at all ages (look at adults!)

My experience of my own children is how I know some 9 year olds are mature enough to be left at home unsupervised, because their maturity will still be years ahead of an average 12 year old.

ash28

Shepherd1 wrote: »

I think some people on this thread have been very lucky that nothing has happened to their children, nothing to do with how responsible the parents think they are.

I think one person said they let their 9 year old get a bus home and let themselves into the house to wait for an hour. Totally iresponsible on the parents part what if the child walked in while the house is being broken into or fell and knocked themselves out or 100 other things that could go wrong.

To say well accidents happen is just wrong a 9 year old is a child and should be cared for as such.

We live in a rural area and it is very common for children from the age of 4 or 5 to use the school buses - at that age they are supervised on to the right bus at the school. But by the time they are in year 3 they have to get on the right bus and get off at the right place. Not every village has a school and not every household has 2 cars. The school run has different connotation here.

Buses to and from school is norm for a lot of children here.

valk_scot

poet123 wrote: »

IEarlier up the tread is quote from the pdf put out by the NSPCC(!) and they don't advise leaving a child under 12.

Actually, they don't say that. They say...

"If your child is under the age of 12 they may not be mature enough to cope with an emergency. If you do need to leave them, ensure it is only for a short time."

Very much open to interpretation, really. You are interpreting it as "We don't advise" but that's not what it actually says.

What they

mumps

I saw a programme a few years ago, it was following young children whose parents asked them to make journeys, run errands or other tasks. The children were followed by someone with a hidden camera. I think it was in Japan and the children were young, 4 or 5 I think. It was fascinating watching them, they were very thoughtful and serious and as far as I can remember they all did really well. It was a really interesting programme. I wouldn't want to see children that young doing these things alone and obviously they were safe and being watched but they did seem so mature and responded brilliantly.

poet123

valk_scot wrote: »

Actually, they don't say that. They say...

"If your child is under the age of 12 they may not be mature enough to cope with an emergency. If you do need to leave them, ensure it is only for a short time."

Very much open to interpretation, really. You are interpreting it as "We don't advise" but that's not what it actually says.

What they

In the pdf is this advice:
After school
“We both have jobs that require long hours. We take turns to get home as early as
possible, usually around six, but that means the boys have to let themselves in to
the house and look after themselves for a few hours. We have ensured they have
emergency numbers and have taught them not to open the door to strangers.”
Scott and Liz, parents of James, 11, and Josh, nine.
Jane says
,

“Your sons are still too young to be left alone for these periods on
such a regular basis. Some schools provide after school clubs, sports activities or
homework groups to assist parents to manage these gaps. Ask your school about
what’s available locally. Perhaps there are friends or neighbours who would look
after the boys some afternoons, or at least who can be available for the boys to visit
or call if they are upset by anything.

That seems quite clear to me.