Bitcoins

csm888

Litecoins:
Off the top of my head there are 3 differences.
1) The mining algorithm uses Scrypt instead of SHA, this means at the moment there is no ASIC devices that can mine, so people can still do it using the graphics cards of their home PC's. The script algorithm requires large amounts of computer RAM so it is hard to create custom mining devices (but it may come)

2) There will be 84 million coins in total (bitcoin has 21M)

3) There average time between blocks is 2.5 minutes, bitcoin is 10minutes.

But basically like nearly all Alt coins these are tweaks to the original Bitcoin code. In the case of Litecoin and again nearly all the others the tweaks are designed to correct what some people perceive as poorly chosen initial values in the code.

hander

The main problem buying ltc in the UK at the moment is that the spread (ie the markup by sellers) on easy uk sites is about 60%. That's WAYYYY too much atm. There are a lot of complaints on LBC about the markup on bitcoin over the last few days.

It's totally fair enough, of course, but if you can see the price of LTC at 5GBP or so, say here: http://www.litecointicker.co.uk/ then it's difficult to buy them at 8GBP...

IT will correct, of course, if people stop buying. But obv traders are trying to take advantage of the interest and difficulty of buying the UK. As I said, fair enough. But it could also be argued to be a touch greedy.

dryhat

Looking at this site ... https://litecoinlocal.org/index.php

is like looking at localbitcoins 10 months ago (pricewise)

paddyrg

JohnRo wrote: »

Quite right, but anyone wanting to behave that way can't use the bitcoin protocol itself to do so, they can only do those things by exploiting individuals using bitcoin. That's not just playing with words and you seem the sort well able to see that distinction. The btc protocol doesn't allow any hidden corruption or privileged control. It forces explicit and observable chicanery.

Absolutely! I fully appreciate the distinction between protocol and interface with the real world :-) It's the interface that's the biggest risk. Speculation does the cryptocurrency no favours to my mind, swinging so wildly (even if marginal volume was traded at those prices) attracts speculators (in the mundane, analogue, meat world) whose only interest is to engineer bubbles and bursts in order to enrich themselves in other currencies/holdings. The people who'll pay for that are the later-coming speculators, but the undamped oscillation will attract more specilators until the last person holding the long number with the high price loses the lot.

I really appreciate it's clever, and I appreciate there is a place for some of what it can provide, but I don't think this is the vehicle and ecosystem for it. I imagine there will be lessons learnt, eyes watching, and some kind of officially sanctioned, market-dampened cryptocurrency rise in its place, one traceable to individuals/institutions, maybe even with reversible payments and some of the other things that make consumers feel comfortable with. There will be outcry from a few outliers who'll be decried as extremist mentallers who just want to money launder, buy drugs, hitmen and avoid taxes, but it'd gain majority traction so who cares, frankly.

I've dealt enough with high and low level IT to know that ideal, mathematically elegant solutions crash noisily with tragically, deeply flawed real-world life. Life, governments, exchange etc is impure, it's a total mess at best. There is a LOT of investment (social, financial, etc) in USD, EUR, GBP etc - they aren't going to be ousted easily. BTC is interesting, but an outlier and maybe an indication of things to come, but attracting destructive speculatory elements which ironically are part of the problem - it's treated not as a currency but as a gamble.

hander

dryhat wrote: »

Looking at this site ... https://litecoinlocal.org/index.php

is like looking at localbitcoins 10 months ago (pricewise)

Yes, but important for new people to realise that it's unlikely (even if you're as bullish as Keiser) that they are unlikely to go the same way.

I first wrote about BTC back in 2011. At that point, I was purely writing about money for something - so it came up in my research. The thought of buying some just didn't enter my head...

did the OP buy by the way. Does anyone know?
If so, I'd guess they're not hanging about on mSE any more!

Gaaraz

If you wanted to buy Litecoin from somewhere reputable I'd recommend Bitbargain - https://bitbargain.co.uk/buy - though as mentioned above by hanger, you will be paying a big premium right now.

JohnRo

paddyrg wrote: »

I've dealt enough with high and low level IT to know that ideal, mathematically elegant solutions crash noisily with tragically, deeply flawed real-world life. Life, governments, exchange etc is impure, it's a total mess at best. There is a LOT of investment (social, financial, etc) in USD, EUR, GBP etc - they aren't going to be ousted easily. BTC is interesting, but an outlier and maybe an indication of things to come, but attracting destructive speculatory elements which ironically are part of the problem - it's treated not as a currency but as a gamble.

If I distil what you seem to be saying it is that someone, somewhere, somehow is going to do something that will destroy it, that's always possible, I'm saying that is extremely unlikely and the test of time is and will be the only arbiter of that.

We're already deep into the territory where truly astronomical incentives exist for those who might gain, and also, let's be honest, for those who stand to lose everything, and might want to do all they can to manipulate and control this or influence in any way they can whether this phenomenon succeeds or fails.

Regardless of all that, bitcoin itself remains indifferent and unmoved, I would personally concede the explosion in interest is perhaps happening too quickly and that many getting involved aren't seeing this phenomenon for what it really is, which is in essence an incorruptible, decentralised, global transaction framework.

hander

BTW: If we want to see this established as a currency (and survive), then spend your BTC too... Ok, you may not want to do this while it's very volatile. But actually it IS calming a little.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/11/20/shut-up-and-take-my-bitcoins-a-map-of-bitcoin-friendly-businesses/

paddyrg

JohnRo wrote: »

If I distil what you seem to be saying it is that someone, somewhere, somehow is going to do something that will destroy it, that's always possible, I'm saying that is extremely unlikely and the test of time is and will be the only arbiter of that.

We're already deep into the territory where truly astronomical incentives exist for those who might gain, and also, let's be honest, for those who stand to lose everything, and might want to do all they can to manipulate and control this or influence in any way they can whether this phenomenon succeeds or fails.

Regardless of all that, bitcoin itself remains indifferent and unmoved, I would personally concede the explosion in interest is perhaps happening too quickly and that many getting involved aren't seeing this phenomenon for what it really is, which is in essence an incorruptible, decentralised, global transaction framework.

Not that one person/group will systematically try to break the maths, not at all. More that the ecosystem in which bitcoin lives isn't nearly as robust as the maths behind the currency. Cashouts through MTGox for instance can take significant time (for some people in terms of months). The investment behind bitcoin is significant for a very small group of people, but not even approaching a major currency.

Instability is good for speculators to make a quick buck, but not for the currency to be useful as a currency. Where it's accepted by pubs, pizza places (apart from being a novelty thing to get headlines) the price is actually in USD/GBP/whatever and the BTC exchange made on the fly - otherwise you have a pint of beer that was worth £3/1BTC a couple of years ago now worth £600 (but back to £300 a few hours later). For things to be priced in BTC the exchange rate needs to be stable, but speculators want it to be unstable, with high ramping as new 'investors' buy in on a high. They are the enemy of Bitcoin becoming a currency in its own right. That's how I see it anyway.

If there was something *like* Bitcoin, but more stable, easier to get money back out of, where tangible goods could be priced in it without it being a mad gamble whether you under/overpay hour by hour compared with the existing options, I think it would get traction. There is a lot to learn from the concept and process, and BTC itself will likely remain in some form and probably a much lower (IMHO) valuation as a way to shunt money around.

But I know nothing. I was convinced it had topped out at $240 before more speculators and ramping drove it higher. I hope nobody who can't afford it has thrown their all behind it, but it does make interesting watching, much like gold did a few short months ago.

hander

paddyrg wrote: »

If there was something *like* Bitcoin, but more stable, easier to get money back out of, where tangible goods could be priced in it without it being a mad gamble whether you under/overpay hour by hour compared with the existing options, I think it would get traction. There is a lot to learn from the concept and process, and BTC itself will likely remain in some form and probably a much lower (IMHO) valuation as a way to shunt money around.

But I know nothing. I was convinced it had topped out at $240 before more speculators and ramping drove it higher. I hope nobody who can't afford it has thrown their all behind it, but it does make interesting watching, much like gold did a few short months ago.

This volatility is a natural part of cryptocurrencies birth, no?

WHen it comes to BTC, we all know nothing. :-)