Bitcoins

zerog

Can someone explain what exactly is unique about bitcoin, is it not possible to just create multiple versions using different crypto/hash functions or even using the same protocol but a different chain? Obviously nobody will accept a new bitcoin at first, but nobody accepted the current bitcoin when it first started.

Sort of like Canadian Tire Money, Chiemgauer or maybe even Tesco vouchers. Supposing there was a community who agreed to restart all the bitcoin chains for their private transactions and offered exchanges to pounds or euros too (perhaps calling it something else to avoid confusion with the "real" bitcoin), and then somehow this managed to gain widespread acceptance, would this work and why or why not? I'm talking about the technical capabilities rather than any problems of gaining trust.

merlingrey

21 million bit coins (by the year 2140 according to wikipedia)


Thats a fraction of a coin per person, can you buy fractional bits?
how does that work?

But moores law will pump up computing power about 10,000 fold way before 2140, you get more bit coins if you overclock all cycles would you not?

Like if you run 4 graphics cards and have them maxed out using nitrogen cooling.

And electricity costs per watt of computing power also come down.
Both exponential growth in computing power and exponential drops in cost of production.

Parallel processing? exponential growth in numbers of cores on die's of chips?

Many of these things are predictable but technology as a whole is not.

Who is it strored with and how trustworthy are they?

Can bit coins be destroyed by hardware /hard disk drive wipes, electrical faults, total power shut down/ emp and so on?

zerog

merlingrey wrote: »

Thats a fraction of a coin per person, can you buy fractional bits?
how does that work?

Yes of course, I believe you can buy millionths of a bitcoin though it would be pointless to do so now.

But moores law will pump up computing power about 10,000 fold way before 2140, you get more bit coins if you overclock all cycles would you not?

The function gets harder and harder to calculate as time passes. Moore's law isn't really true any more, relates only to clock speed

Can bit coins be destroyed by hardware /hard disk drive wipes, electrical faults, total power shut down/ emp and so on?

Yes I believe so. Same as with burning a banknote.

merlingrey

Well i hope for your sake there is not some smarta$$ who manages to get a quantum computer going anytime soon LOL.

Linton

I see major problems when bitcoins replace all our fraudulent fiat currencies (unless I have missed something):

The more I and everybody else saves, the fewer bitcoins there are in circulation and so their value relative to goods or services increases. Why would I as a wealthy individual invest my bitcoins knowing that I can get a steady increase in purchasing power merely by keeping them in my wallet? Why would anyone want to borrow to start risky new businesses knowing that they will need to pay back a value far more than they borrowed?

Its not just investment - what about mortages. Why would anyone take one out? Peoples income in bitcoins will steadily decrease as the currency deflates whereas the debt will remain.

Why would anyone buy something now when by waiting they can get it cheaper? So we are talking about a major economic slump.

Then we have the effect on wealth within society. The net effect of bitcoins steady deflation would be that those who are rich stay rich whilst those who start off struggling on a hand to mouth existence will never get the opportunity for anything better. Bitcoins would be increasingly accumulated in the hands of a small number of individuals and large companies.

A deflationary Bitcoin world does not look attractive to me. I cant see it proving attractive to the vast majority of the population.

merlingrey

The other thing i would ask about this "product" could i myself start up a company and make a better version of it to compete?
You cannot get a patent on a currency. So anybody can do it, anybody can start up their own private currency all in competition with each other.

So for that reason i won't be investing so i'm out.

JohnRo

merlingrey wrote: »

The other thing i would ask about this "product" could i myself start up a company and make a better version of it to compete?
You cannot get a patent on a currency. So anybody can do it, anybody can start up their own private currency all in competition with each other.

So for that reason i won't be investing so i'm out.

Competition is good, it creates amongst other things, efficiency and discipline. Good luck with your endeavour, if it is better than Bitcoin, and you can demonstrate that and convince enough people, it will succeed.

You do realise you already invest in a private currency right? Propped up by a government enforcer allowing them and the owners to manipulate your wealth for their own ends and the only real value their tickets contain is the wealth and trust of everyone else in the system?

Bitcoin simply removes these parasites from the equation.

sabretoothtigger

Why would anyone buy something now when by waiting they can get it cheaper?

Because they need to live. If we were all speculators but the majority of any healthy market should be actual users.

Bitcoin will compete with normal currency and I think will lose as they offer better supply demand but it may be a (unreliable) niche for some

merlingrey

JohnRo wrote: »

Competition is good, it creates amongst other things, efficiency and discipline. Good luck with your endeavour, if it is better than Bitcoin, and you can demonstrate that and convince enough people, it will succeed.

You do realise you already invest in a private currency right? Propped up by a government enforcer allowing them and the owners to manipulate your wealth for their own ends and the only real value their tickets contain is the wealth and trust of everyone else in the system?

Bitcoin simply removes these parasites from the equation.

I don't invest in any currency, i only hold £££'s where i have to to pay for things, all spare cash and assets is in Gold, speculative oil + mining stocks and stock + bond based managed funds ISA's.

And hopefully in the future real estate.

I get rid of cash almost immediately on payday either by investment, purchase for personal sustenance or things i need and maybe on occasion the odd stock up on dry and tinned goods.

I'd give it all away to charity if i didn't think i'd need it for asset purchases and future personal need.

sabretoothtigger

Thats where bitcoin has its use, instant transfer. If it fails in that I cant see why it'd keep rising.

occasionally altered by consensus

I wonder as pressure comes to bear as it does on any section of capitalism, will it buckle. That is pretty much the definition, tested to destruction. Its not if but when, people will try to defraud this system and I dont blame any one entity for that.

Same as the finance crisis, if its bad in any one area it'll collapse I think thats a law of arbitrage.
So if this is 'better' capitalism it'll be pushed to the edge and they'll be putting guns to heads in multiple ways Im sure. The more people say this is superior, the more true that is


What is the total trade in bitcoin done per day, it is tiny still right