Bitcoins

Satoshi

gold and silver are manipulated, when that ends their value will be stable again

Linton

csm888 wrote: »

It may be other things, but Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme by definition, look it up.

Its more like a pyramid selling scam whereby those who join early gain money from those who join later. It works fine until the supply of joiners runs out and the later joiners never get their money back. The Bitcoin community also seems to share the religious fervour that one finds in more traditional pyramid schemes.

JohnRo

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

csm888

Linton wrote: »

Its more like a pyramid selling scam whereby those who join early gain money from those who join later. It works fine until the supply of joiners runs out and the later joiners never get their money back. The Bitcoin community also seems to share the religious fervour that one finds in more traditional pyramid schemes.

More FUD. Just because you use emotive words like "pyramid selling scam" it doesn't make it true.

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public."

Nobody promises anything, Bitcoins are traded in an open market, it's supply and demand, just like any other asset or equity. Bitcoin has utility and therefore is a service/product which has potential, and so people are investing in its potential.
You may not believe in the idea, but that doesn't make it a scam.

Perhaps, using your definition, Gold is also a "pyramid sell scam"?

Linton

csm888 wrote: »

"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public."

Seems like a reasonable description of the overall operation of Bitcoin.

[Deleted User]

If Bitcoin is inherently a pyramid scheme, so is Apple stock, or USD.

Even if the behaviours of people involved with Bitcoin trading at the moment match the definition of a pyramid scheme or ponzi scheme (I don't agree with that, but let's say they do) that wouldn't mean Bitcoin itself is a ponzi or pyramid scheme...

Bitcoin doesn't need fiat or gold or any form of money to work, Bitcoin could work without ever having money involved, it just so happens that some people have chosen to involve money... Bitcoin retains it's value (as in, the functionality and usability) whether or not it has a financial "value" of $100 per coin or $1000 per coin or $100,000 per coin or $0.0001 per coin.

Bitcoin and bitcoin trading for fiat are different, they're separate, to conflate them is wrong. Bitcoin does not need money to work.

paddyrg

csm888 wrote: »

It may be other things, but Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme by definition, look it up.

Ponzi-esque I said, quite specifically because it isn't a ponzi scheme but has similar characteristics (later investors paying off earlier ones in an unsustainably expanding market). Whatever, that's just words.

Wealth isn't being created, or if it is please explain how you see it as such. It's being shuffled for sure, but created? If for instance you buy a paddyrgcoin for $1 and sell it to some other guy for $2 yes, you are $1 up and well done to you, but the other guy is $2 down and holds a paddyrgcoin. I don't see any 'wealth' being created there, beyond me creating a paddyrgcoin (which I'll do if you give me $1 for it) ;-)

csm888

paddyrg wrote: »

Wealth isn't being created, or if it is please explain how you see it as such. It's being shuffled for sure, but created? If for instance you buy a paddyrgcoin for $1 and sell it to some other guy for $2 yes, you are $1 up and well done to you, but the other guy is $2 down and holds a paddyrgcoin. I don't see any 'wealth' being created there, beyond me creating a paddyrgcoin (which I'll do if you give me $1 for it) ;-)

If 5 different people each hold 1 coin. Person A sells a coin to Person B for £1. 5 People have coins worth £1 each - total value of all coins (market capitalisation) is £5

So, If Person B sells the 1 coin back to person A for £2, the total value of all coins is £10... see we just increased the wealth of each individual by £1, and 4 of them didn't do anything.

This apples to Gold and Stock, anything that is a store of value in the same way.

Satoshi

Sassypants wrote: »

Are there any laws about renting out a property for bitcoins?

If you accepted bitcoins as rent how could you work out tax?

If someone wanted to stay out of the financial/banking system that is their choice right?

this is a good interview about the CIA in bitcoins

http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=31796

It is not breaking any laws at the moment but there could be laws in the future.

But fiat means the government says you have to use it.

csm888

paddyrg wrote: »

Ponzi-esque I said, quite specifically because it isn't a ponzi scheme but has similar characteristics (later investors paying off earlier ones in an unsustainably expanding market). Whatever, that's just words.

You are right we shouldnt ge hung up on the words. But it is no diffierent from investing in a new technology company. The current shareholders of microsoft have payed off the early investors, just like in your ponzi-esque analogy.

I think the bit most people are not seeing in bitcoin is what is happening in its development. Many people involved genuinly believe in the technology many millions of dollars of VC funding are being spent createing the bitcoin infrastructure.
People buying bitcoins now are gambling that this development will be successful and the project will continue to gain traction.
There are plenty of clueless sheep investing in bitcoin. But that doesnt undermine the underlying technology, and that is what its all about, the idea, the Bitcoin protocol.