Northern Rail Fixed Penalty Notice - how to appeal

HappyMJ

Naf wrote: »

If your departure station has facilities to purchase a ticket, and you're not getting the last possible train of the day, there is zero excuse for getting on without a ticket.
It has been very standard for many years that the rail companies want you to purchase a ticket before travelling where possible. Stations without facilities are the only exception.

There is another exception...

Stations with facilities with no available windows due to a queue and all the machines in use are considered stations without "available" facilities as well so a ticket can be purchased on train or at the destination.

Although, Manchester Piccadilly does have a connection time of 10 minutes (you must arrive 10 mins before train is scheduled to depart) and at least 10 ticket windows to buy tickets and several self service machines so the chances of being able to buy at the first opportunity is quite high.

I'm still confused on this one as even the timetable says no penalty fare will be charged...just a standard anytime single/return ticket will be sold by the conductor if the passenger avoids using the ticket office or machine if they are available under "Buying your Ticket". http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/timetables/20121203/19.pdf

Naf

HappyMJ wrote: »

There is another exception...

Stations with facilities with no available windows due to a queue and all the machines in use are considered stations without "available" facilities as well so a ticket can be purchased on train or at the destination.

Although, Manchester Piccadilly does have a connection time of 10 minutes (you must arrive 10 mins before train is scheduled to depart) and at least 10 ticket windows to buy tickets and several self service machines so the chances of being able to buy at the first opportunity is quite high.

I'm still confused on this one as even the timetable says no penalty fare will be charged...just a standard anytime single/return ticket will be sold by the conductor if the passenger avoids using the ticket office or machine if they are available under "Buying your Ticket". http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/timetables/20121203/19.pdf

A fair point.
My reasoning was that unless its the last train of the day (also accounting for any connections you need to make), you can wait for the next and get a ticket.

RosiPossum

Oh dear! The local trains in Scotland seem to have a good way. Not all stations have a person to sell tickets and some only have pay by card machines. If the conductor doesn't come around, you just buy from the guard at the end station. Never had any problems, and they have people at the barriers just for that.

daveyjp

Northern have now changed the rules and it is for the passenger to find the guard and pay, not to wait for them to appear.

Its amazing that I can buy a ticket and get on a plane to NZ without a piece of paper, but railways still need that bit of orange paperwork. I thought privatisation meant more investment in technology.

wealdroam

daveyjp wrote: »

Its amazing that I can buy a ticket and get on a plane to NZ without a piece of paper, but railways still need that bit of orange paperwork. I thought privatisation meant more investment in technology.

But you can't travel to New Zealand without paying can you?
And then, if noticed, decide to pay at Auckland Airport?

Orange paper ticket, or electronic ticket, you still need to pay.

ILW

RosiPossum wrote: »

Oh dear! The local trains in Scotland seem to have a good way. Not all stations have a person to sell tickets and some only have pay by card machines. If the conductor doesn't come around, you just buy from the guard at the end station. Never had any problems, and they have people at the barriers just for that.

So you just say you came from the station before? Rather open to fraud I would have thought.

agrinnall

ILW wrote: »

So you just say you came from the station before? Rather open to fraud I would have thought.

Perhaps we are rather more honest than the users of England's trains.

Naf

ILW wrote: »

So you just say you came from the station before? Rather open to fraud I would have thought.

Its a start, though. At least people who once would not pay at all are now paying for a journey.
Even if you're on the train and the conductor comes along; if they haven't got to you before the next stop, you can say you got on later than you actually did. Very little is foolproof unless you have barriers at all stations manned at all times.

System

Naf wrote: »

Its a start, though. At least people who once would not pay at all are now paying for a journey.
Even if you're on the train and the conductor comes along; if they haven't got to you before the next stop, you can say you got on later than you actually did. Very little is foolproof unless you have barriers at all stations manned at all times.

A fool proof way is if you don't have a ticket you get a fine. It's harsh but forces people to get tickets.

The metrolink fines you if you are on the tram without a ticket. It's harsh but they're the rules

Naf

goater78 wrote: »

A fool proof way is if you don't have a ticket you get a fine. It's harsh but forces people to get tickets.

The metrolink fines you if you are on the tram without a ticket. It's harsh but they're the rules

But there's always somewhere to get one. Many railway stations, even mainline ones, do not have facilities at anytime of the day to purchase a ticket before you board; therefore there is a conductor.