Northern Rail Fixed Penalty Notice - how to appeal

p00hsticks

munchings-n-crunchings wrote: »

As penalty fares don't apply to Manchester Piccadilly, I would assume the penalty notice will be for boarding a train without a ticket.

My daughter is in the same position. Boards a daily train from an unmanned, non penalty station, where it's custom and practice to purchase the ticket on the train.

I would suggest that the OP isn't in the same position as your daughter, in that both Cheadle Hulme and Manchester Picadilly are manned with both ticket offices (open from 6am to 10pm at least) and self service machines, and therefore one would expect a person boarding at either station to already be in possession of a valid ticket.

unholyangel

TBH I would make the same mistake as the OP.

I usually always buy my ticket on train (on the rare occasion I need to get a train) and sometimes the ticket man/woman hasnt passed us by the time we get to our destination.

Theres usually a platform booth (tiny little thing) where you can purchase a ticket for the journey and then use that ticket to go through the barriers.

Personally I would say thats a far more sensible way of dealing with the matter, and then give fines to anyone trying to pass through the barriers without a ticket.

IMO someone is only a fare dodger if they actually try to avoid paying the fare.

pmduk

unholyangel wrote: »

IMO someone is only a fare dodger if they actually try to avoid paying the fare.

But we're talking about Northern Rail here, one of the worst companies in the UK network. I presume they prefer to fine people rather than provide adequate ticket offices. Certainly my local one is frequently closed.

pinkshoes

I've been occasionally using trains since I was about 14, and they have ALWAYS requested you buy a ticket before boarding, unless it's an unmanned station or the ticket office is closed.

Departing from such a big station, you had absolutely NO excuse not to get a ticket beforehand, so you should just pay the fine.

Excessive? Yes, but the rules have been like this for 20 years, and with train busier than ever, it's imperative to buy a ticket!

Jinks

I grew up in a small town with a small station with no ticket machine and a booth which is only manned part-time. Buying a ticket on the train is normal to me and I am surprised there are people making out that buying a ticket first is "the rules" and if you don't that means you are trying to get out of paying! If you're supposed to always buy tickets before boarding then why are there conductors who sell tickets instead of just guards who fine anyone who doesn't have one?

I could also have ended up in this situation and think it is out of order to blanket fine anyone who doesn't have a ticket at the other end if they are perfectly willing to pay for it right there. It's not their fault if the train is understaffed and it's the first time on the journey they've come upon a member of staff - if the rail company wants to make sure everyone buys a ticket they should hire more conductors, or make sure the ones they've got do their jobs properly. If the train is properly staffed travellers should all be checked while on the train and they shouldn't need guards on the door.

Sorry I don't have any advice but I thought the people accusing the OP of trying to dodge the fair were being very rude and and I hope you manage to appeal the fine.

System

pmduk wrote: »

But we're talking about Northern Rail here, one of the worst companies in the UK network. I presume they prefer to fine people rather than provide adequate ticket offices. Certainly my local one is frequently closed.

In fairness in this scenario they were going from manchester pic where there are many many different ways of buying a ticket. They won't admit it but I suspect they were hoping to get a free journey where nobody checked the ticket.

agrinnall

Jinks wrote: »

I grew up in a small town with a small station with no ticket machine and a booth which is only manned part-time. Buying a ticket on the train is normal to me and I am surprised there are people making out that buying a ticket first is "the rules" and if you don't that means you are trying to get out of paying! If you're supposed to always buy tickets before boarding then why are there conductors who sell tickets instead of just guards who fine anyone who doesn't have one?

I could also have ended up in this situation and think it is out of order to blanket fine anyone who doesn't have a ticket at the other end if they are perfectly willing to pay for it right there. It's not their fault if the train is understaffed and it's the first time on the journey they've come upon a member of staff - if the rail company wants to make sure everyone buys a ticket they should hire more conductors, or make sure the ones they've got do their jobs properly. If the train is properly staffed travellers should all be checked while on the train and they shouldn't need guards on the door.

Sorry I don't have any advice but I thought the people accusing the OP of trying to dodge the fair were being very rude and and I hope you manage to appeal the fine.

But your experience is entirely different to the OP's. There are only 3 stops between Picadilly and Cheadle Hulme, all of them have a ticket office, and only Levenshulme doesn't have a self service machine. If the journey was taken at a time when the Levenshulme ticket office was open then there would be a reasonable expecatation that all travellers should be in possession of a valid ticket. For a station like my local one, which has no ticketing facilities, they would always have to be able to sell tickets on the train, but that doesn't seem to be so on the route of the OP's journey.

Naf

If your departure station has facilities to purchase a ticket, and you're not getting the last possible train of the day, there is zero excuse for getting on without a ticket.
It has been very standard for many years that the rail companies want you to purchase a ticket before travelling where possible. Stations without facilities are the only exception.

Gemma__3

The_ICT_Engineer wrote: »

As the booking office is open from 6am until 10pm, plus there also being self service machines at Cheadle Hulme station. You don't have a leg to stand on, So pay up

...plus that massive nearly 24 hour ticket office in Manchester. I've been there at 5am and its been open then!

gregg1

blitzuk wrote: »

Appeal against what?
You didn't buy a ticket and you got rumbled........

You are the reason the rest of us get huge price hikes.

That is rather unfair. Our local station is supposed to have a ticket office open at specific times but they close and open whenever they like. Not everyone has the opportunity all the time to buy online. It is normal for a ticket collector on our route to let you buy a ticket on the train. Not everyone is trying to avoid paying you know!