Cancelled Subscription via Paypal - Can I be forced to pay?

Eversir

Danie1le,

Exactly the same issue - read the T&C's on the homepage. Nothing about being locked into a 12 month subscription etc. See here:

[Not allowed to post with links yet so copy and paste & add the three w's]

dropbox.com/s/dqnlk63h95q3zn8/Screen%20Shot%202013-04-09%20at%2017.27.45.png

Would never have agreed to their "additional terms" if they had been clearly visible. Went part way through the sign-up process again and it would appear they are being very sneaky. Missed this the first time:

dropbox.com/s/qdg2tegh54lspp4/Screen%20Shot%202013-04-10%20at%2017.27.59.png

Couldn't find any other way to cancel the trial either, so did the same as you re: cancelling via PayPal.

I'm not a solicitor or trained in law, so don't interpret this as solid legal advice, but from what I understand about terms and conditions on the web, they have to be clearly visible and easy to find. More information here:

eff.org/wp/clicks-bind-ways-users-agree-online-terms-service

Note this key part:

"At the other end, by contrast, if a user must click on a hyperlink, or series of hyperlinks, to view the terms, the significance of clicking “I Agree” as showing assent diminishes, depending on the difficulty in actually finding the terms and whether a reasonable Internet User would have done so."

As the hyperlink to these additional terms is not clearly differentiated from the rest of the text, and the fact so many people are reporting the same problem, I'd imagine it would be more than fair to argue that no legally binding contract exists as no proper opportunity was given to review the terms and conditions of said contract. In other words, no money is owed.

Personally I've left them in no uncertain terms that they will not be paid for conditions I was not made aware of, and hence did not agree to in the first place. I am quite prepared to go to court over the matter if it comes to it. At the end of they day they will have to pay a court fee, travel to my nearest court (a good few hundred miles) and invest a disproportionate amount of time over the sake of £200. If they instruct a solicitor to initiate the claim, they'll have to spend even more (and they can't claim legal fees back for this type of claim). And the reality is when a judge is presented with the above facts, they are unlikely to ever win.

Likewise don't be bullied or intimidated by any debt collection agencies they may instruct on their behalf: they have no power to come into your home to seize goods. Even better, once you have the name of the debt collection agency just serve them with a letter of notice removing their implied right of access to your property. If they set foot on your land after this they are breaking the law and you can lawfully seek damages/prosecution for their trespass! :rotfl:

Strength in numbers people!

Danie1le

I am with you Eversir, I am not going to give into them for something I did not agree to.

Thanks for the links, it just further adds to my belief that they haven't got a leg to stand on and their responses amount to nothing more than money making scare tactics.

They are being very sneaky especially when a lot of people seeking their service may be vunerable. I am currently off sick from work after an operation, my employers withdrew company sick pay just a few weeks before my surgery without any notice giving me no opportunity to save to cover it, I just wanted to know if it was legal to do so without any notice, I was under a lot of stress at the time and I still read their Terms & Conditions on their website which make no mention at all of any contract.

christianlawfirm.co.uk/blog/?p=345

The above link also mentions that Terms & Conditions should be clearly visable on every page. The only way to get to the Terms & Conditions they are referring to is by going through the sign up process again. The Terms and Conditions that they have clearly visable on every page are the ones that I read and agreed to.

I have still posted a letter of complaint to their CEO Paul Careless, though I am not sure it will get anywhere. I haven't had a response from them since my last e-mail yesterday and I consider my account with them to be closed.

Eversir

No problem! The more people that speak out and the more information we have about how to deal with it the better!

Re: the problem you went to them about in the first place, that in itself is probably cause for another thread entirely. Funnily enough my issue was also employment law related, and if this experience with Legal-NoCare has taught me anything - all I can say is a decent solicitor is worth the money and dealing with face-to-face! Feel free to pop me a PM - might be able to exchange notes

To be honest with the letter to the CEO, I wouldn't be surprised if that falls on deaf ears given their poor business ethics. That can only come from the top, surely. Still, you never know! :rotfl:

wealdroam

Danie1le, Eversir, it might be worthwhile asking questions about your employment issues on the Employment board.

Danie1le

Thanks wealdroam, I have posted my question there.

I still haven't had a reply to my final e-mail to LegalCare yesterday, I told them that I considered my account closed and I will accept their non response as confirmation of that.

My letter of complaint was signed for at 10.06 this morning so I know that they have it. It will be interesting to see what response, if any, I will get.

Danie1le

I had a reply from Paul Careless today.

He pretty said the same things as their Customer Service but in a much more polite, civilized manner without any threats of legall action.

I just want to highlight one of the things he said..

"If no cancellation request is received within that time then the customer becomes a paying subscriber for 12 months. We make this clear not just in the terms and conditions displayed when a customer signs up but also on every page of our website"

This is clearly not the case, this is only made clear by going through the sign up process again and actually clicking on the Terms and Conditions there. The Terms and Conditions that I believed I had already read but are actually different. Surely this is a misselling of service?

He said that they would very much appreciate me meeting my obligations regarding payment for my 12 month subscription. I will reply to his letter again saying that I consider my account with them closed.

gb12345

Danie1le wrote: »

This is clearly not the case, this is only made clear by going through the sign up process again and actually clicking on the Terms and Conditions there. The Terms and Conditions that I believed I had already read but are actually different. Surely this is a misselling of service?

Are you sure about that?

From looking at the first page of the sign up to a free trial it is clear to me that if it isn't cancelled within 14 days that you will be signed up for a year at £19 per month.

FREE 14 DAY TRIAL*

* Then just £19 per month for full access to LegalCare if you don't cancel within your 14 day free trial (subject to a minimum 12 month contract)

Danie1le

gb12345 wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

From looking at the first page of the sign up to a free trial it is clear to me that if it isn't cancelled within 14 days that you will be signed up for a year at £19 per month.

Except that I did cancel, just not how they wanted me to cancel and that is what the main issue is here.

I knew that it was a free trial leading towards a subscription that I could cancel at any time during the free trial. I read their terms and conditions when I first visited the website and it makes no mention of this so I joined up. I cancelled the same day, there was no option to do this on the website so I cancelled via PayPal. I have cancelled many subscriptions in the past via PayPal without issue.

They never contacted me about it until 9 days after my free trial was supposed to end. If this was an issue why did they not contact me sooner and all this could have been avoided.

It's not mentioned on the Terms & Conditions on their website when it should be. He claims that it is clear on every page of their site when clearly it is not.

gb12345

Danie1le wrote: »

It's not mentioned on the Terms & Conditions on their website when it should be. He claims that it is clear on every page of their site when clearly it is not.

The T&C that you agreed to (yes, these are different to the ones linked to at the bottom of each page, but you are agreeing to a specific set of T&C) when you signed up for the free trial seem quite clear to me

You can cancel the Free Trial at any time during the trial period from the 'My Account' section of your LegalCare

online dashboard. Cancellation requests received other than via Your LegalCare dashboard will not be processed
and your Free Trial will continue. For the avoidance of doubt, cancellation via any third party including any payment

provider will not be accepted as a valid cancellation.

Or are you claiming that when you signed up for free trial this particular paragraph wasn't in the T&C you agreed to? If so, can you prove that?

Danie1le

gb12345 wrote: »

Or are you claiming that when you signed up for free trial this particular paragraph wasn't in the T&C you agreed to? If so, can you prove that?

When I signed up I clicked that I agreed and understood the terms and conditions, I believed they were the terms and conditions I had already read, which is on every page of their website. There was no indication for me to believe that they were any different.