Milton Keynes NCP The Center MK

nigelbb

Thanks for your help Guys Dad. Your evidence is clear proof that there is no clear demarcation between the different parking areas & that the signage is inadequate. A simple measure to avoid confusion would be an arch over the entrance to the NCP are with large notices saying "You are now entering an NCP car park be sure to buy your ticket from an NCP machine".

The parking attendants states that it happens all the time so both operators are clearly aware of the situation. It could be avoided by the simple measure of affixing a notice to the ticket machines stating clearly which parking area they are intended for. The fact that they don't leads me to cynically conclude that because of the penalties that they levy both parties are perfectly happy about the confusion.

I am going to start a thread over on PePiPoo as I intend to fight this unwarranted charge. I am down in Stevenage at the weekend so will take a detour through Milton Keynes to take some photographs. I have already discovered that the "Parking Contravention Charge Notice" is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice in at least two places (inadequate details of company & only a postal address to register an appeal with no email or web address). I would like to examine the signage carefully for any further breaches. TBH technical breaches of the CoP aren't that important but to allow a situation where perhaps thousands of people have been "fined" because of the deceit of NCP & complicity of the council is outrageous.

surfboy1

nigelbb wrote: »

Thanks for your help Guys Dad. Your evidence is clear proof that there is no clear demarcation between the different parking areas & that the signage is inadequate. A simple measure to avoid confusion would be an arch over the entrance to the NCP are with large notices saying "You are now entering an NCP car park be sure to buy your ticket from an NCP machine".

The parking attendants states that it happens all the time so both operators are clearly aware of the situation. It could be avoided by the simple measure of affixing a notice to the ticket machines stating clearly which parking area they are intended for. The fact that they don't leads me to cynically conclude that because of the penalties that they levy both parties are perfectly happy about the confusion.

I am going to start a thread over on PePiPoo as I intend to fight this unwarranted charge. I am down in Stevenage at the weekend so will take a detour through Milton Keynes to take some photographs. I have already discovered that the "Parking Contravention Charge Notice" is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice in at least two places (inadequate details of company & only a postal address to register an appeal with no email or web address). I would like to examine the signage carefully for any further breaches. TBH technical breaches of the CoP aren't that important but to allow a situation where perhaps thousands of people have been "fined" because of the deceit of NCP & complicity of the council is outrageous.

Have you thought of contacting the local press or radio about this PPC trap?;)

nigelbb

Unfortunately I am not local so it's not so easy to raise a stink in the media as I don't even know the name of the local paper.

I have just been speaking on the phone to someone at the Centre MK who is bringing my case to the attention of the Centre Director. The NCP car park is administered on behalf of the Centre MK. Apparently the NCP car park is marked with purple lines just like the council areas because it's the same 30p/hour charge. This is so as not to cause confusion!

trisontana

I think this was covered on BBC Three Counties Radio a couple of years ago. Might be worth contacting them again and telling them that nothing has changed.

nigelbb

I have found that the Google Street View van has been down the road. Here is the entry to the NCP parking area. Note the NCP STOP READ ENTRY SIGNS written on the road that won't be seen if following other cars into that area. Where I parked was just to the right of the blue parking sign at that entrance on the far side of the pavement. I then walked direct to the ticket machine on the left of the entrance & back to the car where I displayed the ticket. http://ww.!!!!!!!.com/d4xtjf7 I approached from the left looking for a parking space. You can click on the left or right arrows on GSV to get a fuller view of the area.

PS for some reasons MSE doesn't seem to like me posting t-i-n-y-u-r-l links so substitute t-i-n-y-u-r-l (without the dashes) for !!!!!!! or here is the full fat direct link to Google maps

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Silbury+Boulevard,+Milton+Keynes,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=52.046039,-0.755034&spn=0.001387,0.002975&sll=52.719039,1.385968&sspn=0.021862,0.047593&oq=silbur&hnear=Silbury+Blvd,+Milton+Keynes,+United+Kingdom&t=m&layer=c&cbll=52.046129,-0.755133&panoid=BYlDpS_Ly7Iwc3IgpWe3xQ&cbp=12,250.32,,0,28.44&z=19

nigelbb

I have been discussing my case over on PePiPoo http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77572&st=0

Today is 14 days after I submitted my challenge & I had heard nothing so went back to the NCP website & entered my vehicle & PCN details. Imagine my disappointment to find this message:--

Appeal - PCCN CP02119738

The Parking Contravention Charge Notice (PCCN) has been cancelled. No appeal is necessary. If you would like to contact the Notice Processing Department regarding this PCCN you can send an e-mail by clicking the button below.

I was really looking forward to taking NCP to POPLA & humiliating them. In the last month I have become an instant expert on parking on private land & find it unbelievable that even a semi-respectable PPC like NCP cannot get their act together to obey the law or even the BPA CoP.

nigelbb

If anyone else gets stitched up by NCP because of their inadequate signage & lack of demarcation between NCP & Council parking here is the full text of the challenge that I sent NCP.

I bought a pay & display ticket for £1.80 (6 hours) from the nearest ticket machine which was approximately 10 yards from my car. The ticket was clearly displayed in the windscreen and you have not provided any proof that that I did otherwise. I was mystified as to why your charge notice was placed on my car & I assumed that whoever created the notice must have misread the date or time on my ticket. The charge notice stuck on the car windscreen only provided a postal address to submit a challenge with no online alternative so I ignored the charge as I considered it completely without merit.

I followed the link on the letter that you sent me as the registered keeper that promised 'Photographic Evidence' (https://www.ncp.co.uk/pcn) but the only options offered were to pay your charge or to appeal. There are no photographs.

Subsequently I have discovered that there are adjacent parking areas in central Milton Keynes one managed by NCP and the remainder by the council. There is no clear delineation or demarcation between these areas as the NCP signage is inadequate and there is no fence. The purple road markings are especially misleading. If I was aware that I parked in the NCP area but had purchased a council ticket then clearly I would have moved my car as the 3rd February was a cold Sunday there were unoccupied parking spaces in abundance. The most that NCP would have lost if this were indeed the case is £1.80 paid to the council not the £70 you are claiming which is clearly a penalty and not a reasonable pre-estimate of loss.

Cancel this charge or provide me with a verification code so I may present my full case to POPLA. I have identified a number of procedural irregularities and breaches of the BPA's Code of Practice both with regard to signage and notification that I will present in support of my case.

Coupon-mad

They don't like it up 'em! :T

Stick around though please, nigelbb, you are one of the resident experts on both forums now, and this is how we all started!

Mogwhy3020

Hi Nigelbb
Im new to this site as i wanted to see if anyone else had been stung by NCP. The exact same problem happened to my friend and myself yesterday. We are both wondering how to tackle the problem and would love to know if there have been any further repercussions for yourself?

nigelbb

No, NCP cancelled the charge after I submitted that strong challenge to them. I also lobbied the Centre MK manager but didn't get a reply & don't know whether he intervened. NCP didn't tell me they cancelled & I only found out when I went to discover what they were doing regarding my challenge. The case is fully documented with photos & Google Street View over on PePiPoo. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77572

Please start your own thread over on PePiPoo as each case is different but there is no god reason why you should have to pay this unfair charge.

I don't live locally to MK but evidently this fraud has been going on for years & really should be reported to Trading Standards. They could completely avoid the problem if they put up an entry barrier & a pay on exit ticket machine just like they have in most multi-storey car parks. The council parking has to be pay & display (or parking meters) as it's on street but there is no excuse for the NCP parking except that it's more lucrative to sting people for hefty "fines" than just rely on legitimate parking charges. Simply having a sign on each of the ticket machines with a map showing which tickets are valid for which parking area would drastically reduce the problem.