Milton Keynes NCP The Center MK

nigelbb

I was in Milton Keynes for a few days about six weeks ago working in The Centre MK & each day parked in much the same place off Silbury Boulevard opposite the door that gives access to Next & John Lewis. In central Milton Keynes the cost of parking or pay & display is governed by the zone which is marked by coloured stripes on the road (£1.20/hour red & £30p/hour purple for cheaper long stay). Each morning I arrived parked on purple lines & bought my ticket at the machine & displayed it in the windscreen. On the third day I returned to find a parking charge notice stuck to my windscreen. I also notice that the car alongside me had a similar parking charge notice. My ticket had not expired & I eventually concluded that whoever left it was an idiot who had misread the date on my ticket so ignored the claim for £70 (discounted to £35 for payment within 14 days). The only option for appealing was a PO Box in Croydon with no online alternative so I ignored the notice but did keep it plus my parking ticket plus took a photograph of the ticket clearly on display in my car plus a similar photo of the car alongside.

I have now received a charge through the post addressed to me as the registered keeper claiming payment of £70. I was about to send the appeal as they do now provide an online address to register an appeal but did some Googling beforehand. It appears that the parking in central Milton Keynes is a mess and that there are two separate adjacent pay & display car parks one of which is managed by NCP. I am assuming that despite there being no indication of this & the fact that I walked only five or ten yards to the nearest ticket machine that I probably bought a ticket for the other car park to where my car was parked. There was no fence or any other indication that there are two car parks & no sign on the machine warning to the effect that "are you sure that you are buying a ticket for the correct car park". The council's downloadable map showing parking in central Milton Keynes gives no indication that there is more than one parking operator https://www.mkweb.co.uk/mkparking/documents/CMK_PARKING_MAP_%28MAY_2012%29.pdf

I have been driving over 40 years & cannot recall ever encountering a similar situation of two adjacent unfenced pay & display car parks run by two different operators. Even aside from the outrageous attempt to extort money by trying to charge £70 for parking in their car park without a valid 30p/hour ticket it seems totally wrong that they have made no attempt to warn drivers of the two car parks & that this situation has been going on for years.

I am now going to ignore the charges and letters as I doubt that POPLA would find in my favour when my argument would be that I did have a valid parking ticket bought from the nearest ticket machine not realising that it wasn't an NCP ticket machine with no indication that in fact I needed to purchase from some other ticket machine further away.

I would welcome any comments particularly from anyone with local knowledge. I live 120 miles away so can't easily pop down & confirm exactly what signs there are describing parking charges.

surfboy1

Maybe this needs highlighting in the local press. How many more motorists have fallen into this trap?
Also, make a complaint to the BPA for unclear sineage.

Guys_Dad

I know CMK well and you are correct - the parking is confusing. There is the Council parking with purple (cheaper) and red (premium) lines marking out parking bays.

In addition, there are two islands of NCP parking surrounded by the Council parking.

The larger park, to the north side of the shopping centre does have large clear signs on entry and the area is marked off with shrubs etc to keep it separate from the Council park.

The John Lewis car park - that was free until recently - is not one I go through, although it is very much as you say. I will take a look on Monday to see if the signs are clear and post it up.

Meanwhile, I would write to John Lewis asking if they could make the ticket go away. No harm in that, although wouldn't bet my shirt on it.

One thing is very clear - the purple and red lined bays should all belong to the Council bays as the NCP ones are supposed to be unmarked. Are you 100% sure you parked in a coloured bay ?

There is a map of parking in CMK, hardly the easiest thing to understand. The little blue P signs on it are the non council controlled areas, but at least other readers can see your problem.

http://www.mkweb.co.uk/mkparking/documents/CMK_PARKING_MAP_%28MAY_2012%29.pdf

nigelbb

Guys_Dad wrote: »

One thing is very clear - the purple and red lined bays should all belong to the Council bays as the NCP ones are supposed to be unmarked. Are you 100% sure you parked in a coloured bay ?

No I am not. It's over six weeks ago. I just quickly found a parking space walked to the nearest ticket machine got my ticket & returned to the car. Now that you mention it I do recall some shrubs but as I said I was in a hurry & didn't take much notice. I don't know that the car park was anything to do with John Lewis I didn't see any signs but then presumably I didn't notice any NCP signs either. There is definitely no barrier with an NCP sign at the entrance which would be a very simple way of ensuring that drivers were made aware that it is a completely separate car park from all the thousands of council spaces surrounding it.. I think that what has happened is that I parked in the first bay of the NCP area & then walked to the nearest ticket machine presumably walking out of the NCP area. If there had been an NCP ticket machine at the entrance I would have obviously used that one as it would have been the nearest.

I feel very irritated about this because NCP have tricked me & now claim a ridiculous amount of money that has no basis in any actual loss. There were loads of free spaces all over the parking.

nigelbb

Guys_Dad wrote: »

There is a map of parking in CMK, hardly the easiest thing to understand. The little blue P signs on it are the non council controlled areas, but at least other readers can see your problem.

As a new user I couldn't post that link. If I have it right where I parked is in the top right hand corner of that map between Silbury Boulevard & Portway in or off a road marked as North Eleventh Street where there is indeed a little blue P for parking sign but no indication that this is totally separate from all the parking surrounding it.

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

As a new user I couldn't post that link. If I have it right where I parked is in the top right hand corner of that map between Silbury Boulevard & Portway in or off a road marked as North Eleventh Street where there is indeed a little blue P for parking sign but no indication that this is totally separate from all the parking surrounding it.

If it is that one, then I regret to say that it is virtually self contained with only 2, possibly 3 entrances and, regrettably, well signed. I can't vouch for the wording as I have not had cause to read it.

If it was the car park beneath that in the map, to thr right of John Lewis, then that is a different kettle of fish and I am not so sure that the flow from council to private is as clear as the yop one.

I will look on Monday though.

The NCP park is owned by a strange half-way organisation that is the MK Centre, who have delusions of grandeur. Certainly not NCP owned, if that helps.

nigelbb

I parked within about 30 yards of the same spot for three days in a row & wasn't aware that there was a different car park. Why would I? There are marked out parking spaces all over that area. If NCP want to clearly differentiate it as a separate car park then there should be a barrier. When the ticket was issued the attendant must have been perfectly aware that I had paid for the council parking.

My natural inclination is to just continue to ignore NCP as they are just trying the usual scam however there might be mileage in contacting the MK Centre to get the ticket cancelled if they are the actual landowners. I am sure that they just want parking managed & don't want to actually 'fine' their customers £70 for parking in the wrong parking space. This must be happening all the time.

robatwork

Does the picture you took show the purple markings at all? Or even the surroundings. I know CMK to some extent, and must say I didn't realise this car park was NCP - I know the John Lewis one used to be free, and constantly circled by 4x4s like vultures in for the kill.

Your picture may help us at least confirm that the ticket was "valid" ie. NCP

nigelbb

It was raining & getting dark so I just got a shot of the windscreen.

The ticket that I bought gives no indication of who issued it.

nigelbb

I took a look over on PePiPoo & see that this ludicrous state of affairs of two pay & display car parks side by side with no clear demarcation between them has been going on in Milton Keynes for at least five years

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=22549
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=21429
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36752

Guys_Dad

OK. As promised, I visited the Centre MK today and took a look at both carparks. Regrettably, both have large, easy to read signs on all their entrances that look BPA compliant (whatever credence you want to place on that).

The car park nearest John Lewis doesn't seem to have any non-NCP parking meters nearby and you would have had to walk out of your way to use a council one.

The other one, again, has clear signs, but interestingly, neither the Council car park or the NCP one have any warning signs on them and a very curious thing happened when I was there.

3 young people parked in the council car park near my car - I was just leaving - but bought their ticket from the NCP car park. A Council warden was walking near by, and went out of his way to advise them that their ticket wan't valid, but if they drove into the NCP car park, it would be. Lots of space, so they did.

I remarked to him that this was a decent thing to do and we stood chatting. Apparently it happens all the time. As we were talking, a NCP warden walked by and found a car in the NCP car park without a valid pass. Out comes the ticket paraphernalia and the car gets a ticket. The warden then does his David Bailey impersonation and takes loads of photos to back up his ticket.

The council warden then advised that the NCP guys were on commission and we both went on our way.

Not sure if there is any more I can add, but good luck to you and the thousands who are caught by this messy situation.