Should Britain change to a contribution based benefits system?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

The big difference between Britain and other longstanding EU member states is less the level of benefits than the basis on which they can be claimed.

Most continental welfare systems are insurance-based. People pay in while they are in work and receive commensurate benefits.

States must take into account a migrant’s contributions in other EU countries and pay him the going rate in their own, but the migrant must have worked somewhere and belong to the scheme.

In contrast, entitlement to most benefits in Britain (Ireland is similar) is determined only by residence and need.

For Frank Field, a long-serving Labour MP and former minister, such ideas are mere tinkering. The only way to restrict access to British benefits is by shifting to “a genuinely contributory welfare system.
That was the original idea, not for the safety-net to become the main provider.”

This is unpopular with many, as it could mean some natives lose their entitlement too.

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21573144-government-wants-curb-benefits-eu-migrants-can-it-once-more-unto-breach

Quite interesting.

I don't have a problem with benefits as a short term support. I also don't have a problem with EU citizens claiming benefits as a short term support.

So long as the claimants, both UK and EU, are only doing so temporarily, not as a permanent lifestyle choice.

I do have a problem with benefits claimants milking the system and choosing never to work. And that applies equally to UK citizens and EU citizens.

It seems other countries have the solution.

Contribution based insurance.

Why not here?

Generali

It would also discourage people who think that not working is a reasonable option.

If welfare was less available, I think it would be amazing how many people would be able to find a job.

wotsthat

Generali wrote: »

If welfare was less available, I think it would be amazing how many people would be able to find a job.

Seems to be some evidence that inflation on basic essential items is having a similar effect.

Politically if the conservatives introduced this and highlighted it would restrict benefits for foreigners they'd make some inroads into UKIP.

vivatifosi

Thanks for starting the thread Hamish. I agree with your comments re short term support and the need for a different system longer term. It's also worth mentioning that contribution systems can be better options for those contributing. My parents, having lived and worked part of their lives in Australia, say that they get a better return for the time they lived there from the Aussie superannuation pension than they do from the British one.

tberry6686

So far this is the only thing that I have came across that can fix the shambles that is the current benefits system. Would be a relatively easy fix as well.

grizzly1911

Not disagreeing with any of the comments thus far but wasn't this the original intention of the National Insurance?

Is it more a case that we have veered off path?

Interesting point :-

States must take into account a migrant’s contributions in other EU countries and pay him the going rate in their own, but the migrant must have worked somewhere and belong to the scheme.

that the rate paid only needs to match the country of origin.

kabayiri

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Not disagreeing with any of the comments thus far but wasn't this the original intention of the National Insurance?

Is it more a case that we have veered off path?

Interesting point :-

States must take into account a migrant’s contributions in other EU countries and pay him the going rate in their own, but the migrant must have worked somewhere and belong to the scheme.

that the rate paid only needs to match the country of origin.

It might cost you more in admin to track these contributions made elsewhere than the savings you make (at least short term).

I think Mr Fields makes a good point, but it comes down to implementation as always. There will be a 1001 campaign groups and legalese campaigners saying this infringed peoples' rights in some form or other.

stinktankcynic

We have a contribution based system. You contribute so someone else gets benefits that they did not contribute for. When it's your turn to claim the door is slammed in your face because you worked and saved. E.g job seekers, pension, etc

Chickabiddybex

In my experience people in this country don't live on job seekers long term they live on child benefits and disability allowances.

I can't see anyone daring to meddle with those.

(For the record I don't think we should deny the genuinely disabled or cease taking care of children)

borkid

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21573144-government-wants-curb-benefits-eu-migrants-can-it-once-more-unto-breach

Quite interesting.

I don't have a problem with benefits as a short term support. I also don't have a problem with EU citizens claiming benefits as a short term support.

So long as the claimants, both UK and EU, are only doing so temporarily, not as a permanent lifestyle choice.

I do have a problem with benefits claimants milking the system and choosing never to work. And that applies equally to UK citizens and EU citizens.

It seems other countries have the solution.

Contribution based insurance.

Why not here?

So a person with parents and grandparents who never claimed benefits apart form child benefit / state pension works but then becomes chronically ill with an incurable illness should only get short term support?

Jennifer_Jane

kabayiri wrote: »

It might cost you more in admin to track these contributions made elsewhere than the savings you make (at least short term).

I think Mr Fields makes a good point, but it comes down to implementation as always. There will be a 1001 campaign groups and legalese campaigners saying this infringed peoples' rights in some form or other.

Interesting point, but currently the DWP does look for Pension contributions made in other EU countries (and I guess others with reciprocal arrangements) if you tell them you lived there at any time.

As it happens they couldn't find anything for me for the time I lived in Belgium, but it was in the early 70's so I would expect systems to have improved (I assume I did pay in to any Belgian system, I certainly paid tax).

But the system is in place and being done.