Quad bike on private road

fivetide

Tilt wrote: »

Sorry RD, but I think that is mainly wrong. If it were the case then the police would need to always establish whether or not the public had consent to be on the road/land in question to whether the RTA applied or not. How would that work unless the area did not have free access, i.e. was not gated?

In my cousin's case, it was argued that he was parked on private property (a boat yard) at 2am in the morning. The police were able to freely drive into said boat yard as they had been asked to keep an eye on it due to recent thefts of fuel etc. Because it was freely accessible, it was deemed to be covered by some sections of the RTA (excess alcohol etc). Apparently had the drive/road leading down to the yard been gated, then the RTA would not have applied.

I believe it is less about gates and once again about consent.

Same as the Tesco car park. It has a gate on it so they can shut it off out of hours but because of the nature of the business the public can just drive in so the RTA applies.

Same with your boat yard I suspect. Private yard but implied public access.

Remember not every copper is 100% clued up on the law and they are prone to fudging a bit at a pinch!

Tilt

Chopper_Read wrote: »

Bigger but equally dense, I've psoted a defence for your original arguement of standing next to a car on your drive. Or being asleep and over the limit.

Not really. Oh hum, posted this before but this;

What is the legal definition of being in charge?

There is no legal definition for the term "in charge" so each case will depend on its exact circumstances and facts. Generally, a Defendant is "in charge" if he was the owner/in possession of the vehicle or had recently driven it. He is not in charge if it is being driven by another person or is "a great distance" from the vehicle.

Matters are more complicated where a person is sitting in the vehicle or "otherwise involved with it". In charge can include attempting to gain entry to the vehicle and failing, having keys to the vehicle, having intention to take control of the vehicle or even "being near the vehicle".

Taken from http://www.drinkdrivinglaw.co.uk/offences/in_charge_of_a_vehicle_with_excess_alcohol.htm (although no doubt the newbie will say it's wrong).

Chopper_Read wrote: »

Your presonal experience is a goon of a relative who was !!!!ed when working as a security guard.

Again, the childish, personal remarks! You are making yourself look silly!

It matters not what he was doing, the fact was he was sleeping in his car while over the prescribed limit in a place where the public had unrestricted access to.

How long do you want to keep this pointless argument up for? The OPs question has been well and truly answered so are you simply on a mission to put you at the top of the class or what?

happybiker

Chopper_Read wrote: »

And the definition is what?

No where near what Rover driver is making it out to be. I haven't got access to Wilkinsons , so cannot check whats in there. The road traffic acts treat 'a public place' differently from many other acts and it is definately not as clear cut as he makes out.

http://www.1itl.com/news/284

Tilt

fivetide wrote: »

I believe it is less about gates and once again about consent.

Same as the Tesco car park. It has a gate on it so they can shut it off out of ours but because of the nature of the business the public can just drive in so the RTA applies.

Same with your boat yard I suspect. Private yard but implied public access.

Remember not every copper is 100% clued up on the law and they are prone to fudging a bit at a pinch!

At least there is someone here with a mature, responsible and logical comment who clearly sees both sides of the 'argument'.

happybiker

fivetide wrote: »

Remember not every copper is 100% clued up on the law and they are prone to fudging a bit at a pinch!

That is probably the sanest comment on this thread. Thankyou

Chopper_Read

Tilt wrote: »

Not really. Oh hum, posted this before but this;

What is the legal definition of being in charge?

There is no legal definition for the term "in charge" so each case will depend on its exact circumstances and facts. Generally, a Defendant is "in charge" if he was the owner/in possession of the vehicle or had recently driven it. He is not in charge if it is being driven by another person or is "a great distance" from the vehicle.

Matters are more complicated where a person is sitting in the vehicle or "otherwise involved with it". In charge can include attempting to gain entry to the vehicle and failing, having keys to the vehicle, having intention to take control of the vehicle or even "being near the vehicle".

Taken from http://www.drinkdrivinglaw.co.uk/offences/in_charge_of_a_vehicle_with_excess_alcohol.htm (although no doubt the newbie will say it's wrong).



Again, the childish, personal remarks! You are making yourself look silly!

It matters not what he was doing, the fact was he was sleeping in his car while over the prescribed limit in a place where the public had unrestricted access to.

How long do you want to keep this pointless argument up for? The OPs question has been well and truly answered so are you simply on a mission to put you at the top of the class or what?

You keep posting that link that says road or public place, my drive is neither.

Chopper_Read

fivetide wrote: »

I believe it is less about gates and once again about consent.

Same as the Tesco car park. It has a gate on it so they can shut it off out of ours but because of the nature of the business the public can just drive in so the RTA applies.

Same with your boat yard I suspect. Private yard but implied public access.

Remember not every copper is 100% clued up on the law and they are prone to fudging a bit at a pinch!

But that matter was put before a court. So are you saying the police were wrong?

Tilt went through it with a fine tooth comb.

Rover_Driver

happybiker wrote: »

Try the CPS site for starters, the references are on there

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences/#P327_35945

Look for the definition of 'Road or public place'

That is their interpretation, where is the definition in the Road Traffic Act 1988?

Rover_Driver

There seems to be some confusion over the word 'access'

It can be a noun, eg. to have access - which can mean the right or opportunity to use or benefit from something (consent) eg. use of a private car park etc.

Or a verb, eg. to access - which can mean to approach or enter somewhere.

You may be able to access a private drive etc (verb), but you may not have access to it (noun).

The Road Traffic Act uses 'access' as a noun - if the public have access, it is a public place.

In the boatyard case, just because the public were able to access it, doesn't automatically make it a public place.

tonyh66

Im glad the OP got their question answered then :rotfl: