Help to stop Shower tray leaking

keystone

googler wrote: »

Judging by the picture, I'm doubtful that anyone has put any tanking in there.... tiles straight onto plasterboard?

You are probably right but can he afford to take the risk.and if so the damage associated with removing all or part of the bottom layer of tiles will be extensive to the point where the finished result will probably be less water resistant than just leaving them be and accepting it was done incorrectly in the first instance.

Cheers

plumb1_2

keystone wrote: »

Why don't you read my post properly and in context before you start being insulting?

And where have i insulted you??

keystone wrote: »

Having "fitted hundreds of trays" then you'll also be fully aware that some stone resin tray manufacturers specify birch ply - now thats mega expensive.

And thats why no use's it, in the real world.

keystone wrote: »

I have never ever ever chipped away plaster to fit a tray. What were you saying about "cowboy" job?

So how do you fit a tray when the solid walls are 10mm plus out of square?

keystone wrote: »

He'll be needing a low profile stone resin tray anyway to most closely match the one he's taken out and guess what - their sides are near vertical because they are, umm, low profile or are you still fitting the ones with 30 degree sides that require a step ladder to get into?

Now who's insulting now?

plumb1_2

keystone wrote: »

Those tiles will not come off easily without doing a serious amount of damage both to tiles and substrate and OP will end up having to retile the lot. To me they are either porc or natural stone and I'd hate to have to try and get a straight line through those with a smal angle grinder and still not manage to carve a hole in the substrate with subsequent damage to any tanking.

All they need to do is fix a batten to the wall, to use as a guide, when cutting the tiles, substrate and tanking ? from the photo there is no tanking, and looks like a solid wall plastered, are could be stud, still wouldn't cause much damage.

But all said and done the OP has said he will not remove the tiles, so he will always have a problem, so pointless giving advice imo. Its been a bodge job from the start and will end a bodge job imo.

keystone

plumb1 wrote: »

And where have i insulted you??

I think it was the use of the word "cowboy" that kinda got my dander up actually. I presume you remember typing it?

And thats why no use's it, in the real world.

So does this mean that you advocate disregarding MIs on the grounds that you know better? Does that apply in any circumstances?

So how do you fit a tray when the solid walls are 10mm plus out of square?

How do you manage to end up with that situation when you've had to replaster or board anyway?

Now who's insulting now?

No I was asking you a simple question about the kit you fit - there was no insult to you . In retrospect perhaps the wording might have been more appropriate but I still had the word cowboy ringing in my ears at the time so perhaps its understandable.

Cheers

keystone

plumb1 wrote: »

All they need to do is fix a batten to the wall, to use as a guide, when cutting the tiles, substrate and tanking ?

OK I'll play. Just how do you propose to do that with porcelain or natural stone tiles (which is what they look like - OP hasn't confirmed either way) without potentially doing more damage?

........ from the photo there is no tanking, and looks like a solid wall plastered, are could be stud, still wouldn't cause much damage.

But you don't actually know that from the photograph but are prepared to advise that course of action without seeing it in the flesh and being certain. Well Ok if you are prepared to take that risk then no reason for you not to advise doing it.

But all said and done the OP has said he will not remove the tiles, so he will always have a problem, so pointless giving advice imo. Its been a bodge job from the start and will end a bodge job imo.

As it happens I agree with you 100% but if I've read OP properly this isn't a permanent fix. This is all about getting him out of the hole he is currently in. His main problem is tray movement due to that appalling pigs breakfast the tray was sitting on. Fixing that is most of it, the tray can then be sealed successfully. Alright not optimally and not perfectly (I've already said that if you had noticed) but such solves the immediate problem. Is the purpose of this forum not to help him do that in as MSE way as possible? No doubt the full refurb later will do it properly so that a situation such as this doesn't obtain in future but that's the future.

Cheers

plumb1_2

keystone wrote: »

I think it was the use of the word "cowboy" that kinda got my dander up actually. I presume you remember typing it?

Yes i do, as trays with upstands are ment to be tiled over.

keystone wrote: »

So does this mean that you advocate disregarding MIs on the grounds that you know better? Does that apply in any circumstances?

Yes only in certain circumstances, like using Birch ply.

keystone wrote: »

How do you manage to end up with that situation when you've had to replaster or board anyway?

Why do you have to replaster??? adding expense to the customer, when one or two of the sides of the tray can be sunk into the wall, and if you board the wall it will still be 10mm out of square, Far easyier to remove the plaster to the height of the tray, then patch up.

What would happen if you were fitting a standard bath 1700 long and the wall was 20mm out of square??? Do you replaster all the wall???

keystone wrote: »

No I was asking you a simple question about the kit you fit - there was no insult to you . In retrospect perhaps the wording might have been more appropriate but I still had the word cowboy ringing in my ears at the time so perhaps its understandable.

Cheers

Over the years i have fitted all types of trays,

stevemcol

I know you've had loads of replies and I don't want to muddy the waters but......I had the same prob. I kept re-silconing my shower base which would fail again after a couple of weeks. In the end, I placed two concrete filled buckets in the base, re-sealed and left the buckets in place for 36 hours. Removed the weight and the tray hasn't leaked since.

edit: ignore me, I didn't realise you've had your tray out (just re-read and seen the pic). Reinforcing the floor to stop movement is the way to go then. I'd still put some weight in until the silicon goes off.

plumb1_2

keystone wrote: »

OK I'll play. Just how do you propose to do that with porcelain or natural stone tiles (which is what they look like - OP hasn't confirmed either way) without potentially doing more damage?

ok lets play some more, who said they were stone? porcelain? Imo who ever installed a bodge job like that will not have gone to the expense of using them. more like ceramic. Either way they will still cut with a quality diamond blade.

keystone wrote: »

As it happens I agree with you 100% but if I've read OP properly this isn't a permanent fix.

And where does it stat that its a temp fix???

keystone wrote: »

This is all about getting him out of the hole he is currently in. His main problem is tray movement due to that appalling pigs breakfast the tray was sitting on. Fixing that is most of it, the tray can then be sealed successfully.

Ya for a limited time. and not good practice.

keystone wrote: »

Alright not optimally and not perfectly (I've already said that if you had noticed)

No i hadn't, but then again, i have been sucking on lead pipe for yrs, so my heads like a October cabbage sometimes.

keystone wrote: »

but such solves the immediate problem. Is the purpose of this forum not to help him do that in as MSE way as possible? No doubt the full refurb later will do it properly so that a situation such as this doesn't obtain in future but that's the future.

Cheers

Again please show me were he says he is doing a full refurb?? All he says is that he is going to remove the floorboards and fit ply. Imo he shouldn't do that, as it will be a job for him to fit nogging in where he cuts the boards and weaken the floor that is tiled. Best just clean them off and fit ply.

fto

Thanks to all for the help.
I am hoping to get this sorted this weekend.
The tiles are ceramic,the walls are solid with boards on dot & dab.
I may have a attempt at cutting in to the tiles,if i am feeling brave.I have a multitool thats still in its box & a small grinder...but the grinder does concern me somewhat( keeping a steady hand).
The walls are pretty square so like Keystone says it may be OK,if I decide against cutting the tiles.The floor is not tiled.

plumb1_2

fto wrote: »

Thanks to all for the help.
I am hoping to get this sorted this weekend.
The tiles are ceramic,the walls are solid with boards on dot & dab.
I may have a attempt at cutting in to the tiles,if i am feeling brave.I have a multitool thats still in its box & a small grinder...but the grinder does concern me somewhat( keeping a steady hand).
The walls are pretty square so like Keystone says it may be OK,if I decide against cutting the tiles.The floor is not tiled.

To cut the tiles, just fix 2x1 timber to the wall, screw and plug it through the tile joints, that way you will have ALOT more chance of not breaking any tiles. The 2x1 will be used as a cutting guide.

You could use the multitool, but better off with a diamond blade imo.