infrared heating

alexcross1

Hi all,
I am looking to replace old storage and convection heating in my 2 bedroom flat as part of refurbishment process. As part of this process I have come across few options like radiant Electric panel radiators, oil radiators and infrared radiators. Of all of them the infrared heating technology seems the most interesting. Apparently it has been of use in europe for a while but it seems to be relatively new to the UK.
I was wondering if anyone has ever used them in their house/flats and has any feedback about it's effectiveness.
I am personally not a big fan of convection heating in terms of making the air dry and sometimes triggering my allergies. Personally I had rather have GCH any given day but unfortunately that is not possible in my flat. Reading all the infrared heating company brochure sounds all very good but the cynic inside me is cautious as ever and wants to get real user experience if possible about the technology.
Many thanks in advance
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Fruit_and_Nut_Case

Do you have a link? As a newbie you can't post links but you can fudge one and someone else may be kind enough to fix it.

alexcross1

Hiya,
thanks for the reply.
1) The biggest company of all seems to be redwell (redwelldotcom). They have UK distribution as well.
2)Another one is mutiheat-energysystemsdotcodotuk.
3)infraredtechnologiesdotcodotuk

thanks
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Cardew

Thre are loads of threads on Infrared heaters. This is just one:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4453431

The important point to note is that, despite the claims, they give no more heat, for the power consumption(and hence cost) than any other electrical heater.

Don't be conned by the adverts and claims. If you really think that these heaters suit you, then get cheap models.

fishybusiness

I would advise you to do your homework before buying.

For example, would you want to fix them to walls or ceilings, do you have existing power points you can utilise in the vicinity of the panel positions, would you use thermostats, and if you did would you use a single stat per panel or multi panel stat set up, are you well insulated, when do you like your heat to be on, do you have E7.

As you have probably read, I have two panels, actually out of use now as we have recently had oil central heating installed.

I like them, and at 600W each I felt they didn't cost too much to run, and were controllable on a thermostat.

Downsides - well running the wiring from a panel hung on a wall is a pain, and it doesn't look so good unless you go to the trouble of hiding it all. Same goes for thermostats, where do you put them so they do not look intrusive - perhaps on the old storage heater wiring?

I also found after a year of use the corner of one room had a slight mould growth - it was obvious the area was not getting warm, something I hadn't thought of.

They seem to be coming more readily available, a look on 'the most famous auction site' a year ago drew a blank, now there are perhaps 20 or 30 listings, how things change. Mine were purchased from Multiheat btw.

Good company? Not bad, prompt service, open price structure. Prior to getting oil I looked a infrared for the whole house, and their plan for the kitchen dining area just didn't work. I tried it with the two panels I have, and the area didn't stay warm enough. I don't understand why, it is a large awkward space with a drafty back door area, and takes some heating.

In the other room, a 4m x 4m x 2.6m they were fine, so from that I think that the distance between the heaters and the opposite walls is a function of how effective these heaters are, and how well their energy is able to be stored in the surrounding structures - may be complete rubbish, just my take on it

alexcross1

hi all,
thanks a lot for your replies. looks like there is no straightforward answer to this infrared debate. I will investigate more.
I guess I need to look at electric panel radiators too because it seems that might still be better than convector heaters.
once again thanks a lot for your help.
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grahamc2003

alexcross1 wrote: »

hi all,
thanks a lot for your replies. looks like there is no straightforward answer to this infrared debate. I will investigate more.
I guess I need to look at electric panel radiators too because it seems that might still be better than convector heaters.
once again thanks a lot for your help.
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It's straightforward really - if you have full priced electric heating, it is going to cost you a lot whatever type you choose. If you need say 25kWh of heat per day, it will cost exactly the same whatever type of electric heating you go for (excluding heat pumps). A 600W heater will be pretty useless (i.e. very underpowered), which is why when Fishybusiness was singing the praises of 600W panels a few months ago and wouldn't hear a word against them, a few suspected he would at some stage see things 'he hadn't thought of'.

You don't hear many switching to oil these days! I suspect in another 6 months, someone will again be posting concerns he hadn't previously thought of!

If your flat is well insulated or surrounded by other flats, modern storage heaters on e7 may be a very good option if gas isn't available, ro you could look into air to air heatpumps (if you get on well with your freeholder).

fishybusiness

Fishybusiness was singing the praises of 600W panels a few months ago and wouldn't hear a word against them, a few suspected he would at some stage see things 'he hadn't thought of'.

The 'words against them' were and are in the main from those that have none, including yourself I believe. Not wishing to bring a done and dusted debate to someone else's question, I find the panels a good alternative to conventional heating, and miss their sunshine type heat.

Having used the panels for a year, and gained a bit of experience of their ups and downs, I thought it wise to add what information I could for someone else's benefit.

Running them overnight on E7 was something I thought of after installing them, and meant the room was toasty warm in a morning, at very little cost, much less than storage heaters. During the cold weather they would be on most of the day, but at 600W a go the bills have been sensible, and in the main we have stayed warm.

That there are downsides was always a given for me, isn't it the compromise that is important in any system, what suits a particular user the most?

Perhaps, on a money saving forum spending hundreds on any heating panel goes against its ethos, and some panels are incredibly expensive, and most definitely are not for the money saving market. Some are not though, and the prices appear to be coming down, making them more accessible to those with less spare cash. Who knows what another year will bring.

You don't hear many switching to oil these days! I suspect in another 6 months, someone will again be posting concerns he hadn't previously thought of!

Quite a snide comment really, which reinforces what I already thought of you, and does nothing to inform the OP.

Quite obviously you have a set of circumstances set out in your mind as to why we now have oil CH, just to set the record straight - it was a Warmfront install. Had Warmfront not been available I would have used IR panels in the other rooms.

It is not 'straightforward really', and Google obviously does not inform you well.

I don't think there is anything I have missed, and no doubt you will be back to have another go at me. I'm done on this thread, hopefully the OP has enough information to make an informed choice.

grahamc2003

I neither need google nor to own any particular item to comment sensibly on a heating system.

While radiant panels may well have a place for those who understand their applications, I'm afraid most of your views were, and in fact still are, misplaced. And the fact that warmfront decided that even an oil system was better than panels for you speaks wonders (don't you see that? - you have ripped out the system you not long ago said was cheap to run, heated everything nicely and was all in all perfect). Notwithstanding the warmfront lot should be shot for installing oil fired heating these days - a fact which will no doubt dawn on you probably in a year's time when you'll have to shell out yet another £1000 to have your oil tank filled yet again.

Today, new subsidy schemes (which in part replace warmfront) are designed (corretly) to rip out oil systems and replace with more sensible ones. Why, like the OP, didn't you post on these boards to request opinions on what warmfront were proposing - afterall, they wanted, and did, rip out your perfect panels.

I've given good advice to the op for his consideration. If you think a good use of instant heating radiative panels is to run them at night (the exact opposite of their application!) then you're way off the mark. Instead of instant heat and zero storage of panels, the rest of the world thinks heaters using night time electricity need zero initial heat release and lots of storage.

Anyhow, good luck with your oil system. When you decide to replace it, you'll only be able to get loans for a replacement system, not full grants.

fishybusiness

So lets look at what you have said Graham, bit by bit.

And the fact that warmfront decided that even an oil system was better than panels for you speaks wonders

I like that btw, 'even an oil system', the Warmfront rules define that in the presence of no central heating system, a full system can be installed on the scheme. Our house had NO central heating, only convectors and 2 IR panels, hence CH was recommended.

don't you see that? - you have ripped out the system you not long ago said was cheap to run, heated everything nicely and was all in all perfect

Ripped out, hmmm, two screws, one connection and lifting off the wall of two panels. 10 minutes work, hardly ripped out.

Oh, and yes I do like them, as you are aware, perfect, quite sure I didn't ever say that, and as it happens I have another use for them so to my mind nothing lost and a year of use gained.

Why did I do that? Consider that if I spend say another £2k of my money on IR panels, like any other form of heating, once I have bought them, I have lost money, perhaps half of it immediately I take delivery. There's a grand gone. I still have to run them, just like any other heating system.

With Warmfront there are no upfront costs, I have an efficient Worcester boiler, I actually have it installed, not maybe, not could be in a years time, not funded by a loan, or any other kind of finance. It is here and it works.

My money is in the bank, my children are warm, and running costs are ok - I have had oil before and know the running costs.

So, mr energy advisor, what would you do, bearing in mind our house is a 2 mature student house, what finance would you secure to warm your home under the new system?

Lastly,

Today, new subsidy schemes (which in part replace warmfront) are designed (corretly) to rip out oil systems and replace with more sensible ones

Perhaps, with the OP in mind you would like to direct him to any potential savings or grants he may be able to look in to rather than spending your time discrediting me

alexcross1

hi guys,
thanks a lot for your reply while I don't think this IR panel will be any cheaper to run but all I am looking for is better "heat quality" (not sure if that is the right word for it!) i.e. closest to GCH in terms of radiated heat. Currently I am also exploring the Dimplex RPX range, economiser electric radiator and vantage electric radiator. I usually prefer time tested companies so I have more leaning toward Dimplex compared to the other two.
Anyway the hunt goes on for the right heating solution.
Many thanks to both (Fishybusiness and Graham) of you for your valuable input.
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