The most expensive KFC ever!!!!

RuncornGaz

So, I wrote to enterprise demanding my money back and explaining that their T&Cs did not cover speculative invoices from private parking firms. They have yet to write back, and that was 2 weeks ago. I will give them another couple of days due to Easter but will attempt to get my money back via a charge back - any advice on this and how to word the request to the back as not done this before.

As for Excel, they finally decided to write to me (after enterprise passed on my details) with another PCN for £60. Most of your previous responses advised me to ignore, however some of you favoured appealing and quoting the Popla line. I'm getting hassle for the Mrs to "do something" so will probably write an appeal and see where that takes us ...

Cheers

Guys_Dad

RuncornGaz wrote: »

Most of your previous responses advised me to ignore, however some of you favoured appealing and quoting the Popla line. I'm getting hassle for the Mrs to "do something" so will probably write an appeal and see where that takes us ...

Cheers

Not before testing it out on here first,I trust.

Coupon-mad

RuncornGaz wrote: »

So, I wrote to enterprise demanding my money back and explaining that their T&Cs did not cover speculative invoices from private parking firms. They have yet to write back, and that was 2 weeks ago. I will give them another couple of days due to Easter but will attempt to get my money back via a charge back - any advice on this and how to word the request to the back as not done this before.

As for Excel, they finally decided to write to me (after enterprise passed on my details) with another PCN for £60. Most of your previous responses advised me to ignore, however some of you favoured appealing and quoting the Popla line. I'm getting hassle for the Mrs to "do something" so will probably write an appeal and see where that takes us ...

Cheers

Google 'chargeback credit card' as I am sure it's covered on the Which? website as well as covered in an MSE article as well. Easiest to find by Google IMHO!

RuncornGaz

So I wrote to Enterprise, and guess what, not even the courtesy of replying to my letter (which I wasted a good stamp on). I have since contacted my bank and advised them to start chargeback procedures against the transaction for debiting my account the £35 admin fee.

I have since then also received another "invoice" from Excel Parking, this time addressed to me (not via the hire car company thankfully). Am about to write an appeal letter and will post a draft on here for your advice

many thanks

Coupon-mad

Yep, do post your draft appeal but do a bit more reading first:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/appeal-letter/

Many of us on here tend to recommend a 'legal challenge' rather than a soft appeal. But don't actually copy the template - it's there to give you ideas of the sort of issues to cover and to make it more of a complaint, not a soft 'this is what happened so please cancel' appeal begging letter.

And if the first challenge doesn't work, never fear as we have a learnt quite a lot in the last few months about what sort of legal points POPLA will uphold. So you can get further advice here before appealing to POPLA, and if it's then cancelled at that stage then Enterprise will have to refund their useless 'admin fee' anyway.

Coupon-mad

Nicely done - and no they won't ignore it as they have to reply within certain deadlines otherwise it then is null and void anyway. The whole point is to either make them give up when they see you know about POPLA (which costs them £27 only to see the fake PCN cancelled ). Or for them to fail to reply in time. Or to get a rejection letter and POPLA code out of them so you can formulate a really strong POPLA appeal and join the ranks of the successes on this forum so far, all of which have cost the scammers in more ways than one!


I think I would perhaps just add quite a bit by way of specifics about the site, to this sentence and change the use of 'grace period':

''unfair and unreasonable given the nature ofthe 32-minute stay (free parking is permitted for a 15 minute grace period).''

...because 'grace period' actually has a different meaning in the BPA Code of Practice (to do with an allowable time to arrive, read the signs, find a space if staying, then afterwards, leave). KFC is within the very large car park but a fair way away from the entrance/exit cameras, yes?

So you could say that the 'charge' is:

''unfair and unreasonable given the nature of the very short stay in this instance and the perfectly normal time taken to collect a takeaway at busy times. I see that your signs claim that free parking is permitted there for only 15 minutes which smacks of unfair entrapment, especially as your clock is secretly ticking from the point of arrival to the point of driving out (not parking time). Why have such a short-stay time to collect a takeaway which is impossible to achieve at busy times, when it takes longer than that just to queue & wait for the staff to serve and take payment for the food? What is your justification for such a short time which I will contend to POPLA, is not fit for the purpose and is just sharp practice and purely a means for Excel to make money out of KFC customers?

Under the BPA Code of Practice, as you will be aware, you are required to allow a 'grace period' in addition to the parking time, and to make that grace period clear. I saw nothing about this in your signs so will require you to show that specific grace period term in your signage, displayed at this site on that day, to POPLA if you reject my appeal.

A driver cannot have formed any contract with Excel if he/she is expected to guess what the 'grace period' is for arriving, driving past your stealth camera, continuing slowly past pedestrians, trolleys and cars in the main large car park, then waiting (in most cases for a minute or two) for a free parking space outside KFC to become available, take a moment to read any signs in view and then park for free as offered; then to repeat the whole process after returning with the hot food, and finally emerge past your camera again.''

And you could add that the alleged 'contravention' did not occur and add this sort of thing to the good points you have already made about not being in the permit bays:

''The driver cannot have breached any contract as alleged on the ticket anyway, because your ticket states that this 'charge' is for 'parking without a ticket/permit'. Quite simply, the driver did not do this, so the alleged 'contravention of rules' did not occur. The car was simply parked in the correct free bay, not pay and display, and only for the time taken to collect a takeaway at a busy time - and you have shown no evidence of how long the car was in the free bay for at all. This visit has not caused KFC or the site owners any loss nor breached any conditions relating to parking/paying/displaying in the main car park - and certainly there has been no loss to a mere third party parking company with cameras and signs but no other connection to the site. At no time was the car parked in any space that required a ticket or permit so your whole basis for this ticket is flawed.''

RuncornGaz

Hi, have replied on another forum without seeing this updated post from you, so please ignore questions on Pepipoo ...

I like the additions you made, very concise and challenging to the PPC.
I'm not sure (having not returned since) that the signs say that parking for 15 mins is "free", so I may have made a mistake there. I just seem to recall something about a grace period or saying that you had 15 mins to find a parking space before paying.

To clarify, the KFC parking bays do not say "free parking" either, but they are clearly defined as separate from the other white bays and state parking for restaurant customers only. The signs here allude to a maximum stay of 15 mins ... but agin, no note to say you are advised to purchase a ticket if we are busy due to stealth cameras at the exit.

I would like to use the additions from you in my letter, but didn't want to allege anything that wasn't actually written i.e I'm not sure the sign says FREE parking other than the line about having 15 mins to get out. I have used the KFC several times in the past, and sure I have gone over the 15 mins, without ever getting a ticket. Should I include this "grace period" line in my defence or just leave it out altogether?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

I think I would remove the bit about 'free' and just say that the signs communicated to the driver that a person collecting a takeaway and parked in those bays could park for that purpose - and you don't recall any mention of a need to show a permit or P&D ticket in those bays. So the signs at those bays are unclear. And you'd want to see their evidence otherwise as it's a point you will be taking up with POPLA if they reject your appeal.

Coupon-mad

Just a few points, a tiny one just to remove the apostrophe after:

whole basis for this ticket is flawed.'

And it needs a little adjustment to make the font and sizing consistent of course; due to cutting and pasting the font chops and changes.

And if it were me I wouldn't actually tell them at the end what deadlines they have to meet in order to comply. The more breaches and missed deadlines by them, the better for you at the POPLA stage. So your closing sentence could be a vague but cheeky:

I look forward to receiving your response and expect this speculative invoice to be cancelled before POPLA do it for you at your own expense. [STRIKE]acknowledgement of this letter within 14 days and a comprehensive reply within [/STRIKE][STRIKE]35 days (in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). I will then be able to make an informed decision as to how I shall respond to your Notice to Driver. [/STRIKE]

Guys_Dad

Regrettably, it came over to me as being a mish-mash. You admit it was you driving, but then refer to "the driver" mid way.

You then ask the PPC why they only allow a short time for parking free when that could be a KFC business decision.

You then say it is not an appeal at the beginning, but at the end state they should send you a POPLA code if they won't cancel. But you can't go to POPLA unless you have appealed or made a representation to the PPC. So if is not an appeal, what is it.

The quotes from laws relating to contract are a waste of time and would be an argument for court.

If you had stopped after the paragraph ending in "flawed", added the last para, removed words like 'anyway' etc to keep it looking more business like, and then decided if it is an appeal or not, then it is avoid letter.