POPLA Decisions

Umkomaas

POPLA seem to have sidestepped the 'not relevant land' issue. Are you going to pursue this @OP?

I would have though it pivotal to the case.

EDIT TO ADD
I've quickly scanned the first couple of pages of your original thread and I'm confused as to in whose name this appeal was made to POPLA. You or the RK (your wife)? Please clarify.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5882261/help-please-have-i-made-a-mistake

PPC is Premier Parking (who do seem to do extraordinarily well at POPLA).

Standupforyourself

sorry, OP?

has this area of the law been tested at court?

Umkomaas

Standupforyourself wrote: »

sorry, OP?

has this area of the law been tested at court?

OP = original poster - YOU.

Please read my edit to my previous post.

beamerguy

Standupforyourself wrote: »

No, it was an experienced assessor from i what i gather.

Not being rude to you but "experienced assessor"

If so, POPLA would not come out with this rubbish

Standupforyourself

Umkomaas wrote: »

POPLA seem to have sidestepped the 'not relevant land' issue. Are you going to pursue this @OP?

I would have though it pivotal to the case.

EDIT TO ADD
I've quickly scanned the first couple of pages of your original thread and I'm confused as to in whose name this appeal was made to POPLA. You or the RK (your wife)? Please clarify.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5882261/help-please-have-i-made-a-mistake

PPC is Premier Parking (who do seem to do extraordinarily well at POPLA).

Appeal was from registered keeper.

Coupon-mad

Did you know the POPLA Assessors are made up of non-legally qualified people like a nail technician and a romantic risque novelist (something like that)?

The Assessor has not addressed any evidence you supplied that this is 'not relevant land'.

They have mentioned 'relevant land' in their decision but as Umkomaas spotted, they have failed to address the point that this is byelaws land where the POFA cannot apply and only a driver could be held liable.

Was your link to the website showing that it's byelaws land?

Looks like one to complain to POPLA that your not relevant land point was neither rebutted by PP, nor addressed, at all, by the Assessor who appears to have misunderstood it.

You have to word a complaint carefully, not complaining that the Assessor was 'wrong' or you disagree with the outcome. You can only complain about a failure of the process and/or if an Assessor has failed to consider evidence/points in the appeal, and spell it out.

Seems to us they missed the vital argument altogether. Show us your draft complaint.

Just in case POPLA fail to address the complaint well and reconsider the not relevant land point, you should know that we test PPC cases in court all the time and see 99% wins by posters here.

PP also read this forum so no saying who parked the car, and no replying to any intimidating ''we've been reading your posts'' pm they might send to you, as they did to a Defendant last year (Andrew Gogun, I think....read his thread!).

Standupforyourself

Coupon

Ha ha, no doubt they are all people who have "proper" jobs and then do this on the side for a kick!

My full complaint is published on the other thread. You guys helped me with it.

POPLA make it clear they wont consider appeals based on Bye-laws so maybe this is why they ignored it.

The link i directed POPLA to was to do with who owned the land (the council). Is that what you mean?

Coupon-mad

My full complaint is published on the other thread. You guys helped me with it.

No, you haven't 'complained' yet!

Over to your thread please:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5882261/help-please-have-i-made-a-mistake&page=7

Guys_Dad

When you make your complaint to POPLA, please keep it simple. Your argument is based on the assessor applying POFA to land that is specifically excluded. I am not legally qualified, but generally the wisdom on this forum is that Council Land is not covered by POFA, but others such as Bargepole or Loadsofchildren are better placed to advise.

Quote from their judgement
"The operator has provided POPLA with a copy of the contract between itself and the landowner. This shows that the operator began an agreement with Ilfracombe Town Council on 18 October 2016 to enforce parking on its behalf. The contract is for a period of 36 months from the commencement date, and from this point will become a 12 month rolling contract until notice is served by either party. I am satisfied that this evidence is sufficient in prov"ing that the operator has an agreement with Ilfracombe Town Council.

and

3(1)In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—
(a)a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b)a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c)any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

2)In sub-paragraph (1)(b)—
“parking place” has the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984;
“traffic authority” means each of the following—
(a)the Secretary of State;
(b)the Welsh Ministers;
(c)Transport for London;
(d)the Common Council of the City of London;
(e)the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;
(f)a parish or community council;
(g)the Council of the Isles of Scilly.

Coupon-mad

That brings it all into clear focus.

The POFA quotes you've posted there, Guys Dad, prove this is not relevant land.

Ilfracombe Town Council is indisputably a ''traffic authority'', which means/includes:

(f)a parish or community council;

and the bay is indisputably, a:

“parking place” {with} ...the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/32

which says:

32 (4) (b)“parking place” means a place where vehicles, or vehicles of any class, may wait;

thus it is:

a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;

Nothing says it has to be a parking place that's the subject of any statute or Order. It just has to be ''provided by'' any Council.

A well worded complaint to POPLA must be done. The Assessor clearly got stuck on that question & forgot to go back.