Question on USA Visa applications?

tranmereforever

Hiya,

My brother is due to go to America next year

I have just noted that it says that if you have been arrested you need to apply for a visa

He was arrested 3 years ago and charged for fraud but the case was dropped when it came out the company were the ones at fault ( and basically had tried to set him up )

So he has no convictions but an arrest for fraud

Is this likely to prevent him from going?

Would seem very harsh for someone to be denied access to America when he was charged but then cleared of any offence

jonesMUFCforever

Don't rely on any answers here. Get advice direct from American embassy.

Tojo_Ralph

tranmereforever wrote:

Is this likely to prevent him from going?

Ignoring the rights and wrongs of doing so, if he completes the online ESTA and opts to answer "No" to the relevant question, the reality is that he is very, very, unlikely to have any issues whatsoever, unless of course he is on some kind of internationally distributed and monitored "Wanted" list.

You may want to read the below thread to fast forward this thread and save time.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3717891

davebr1

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

Don't rely on any answers here. Get advice direct from American embassy.

Do NOT under any circumstances beleive what this person has stated. The US embassy in the UK beleives that ANY arrest means you need to apply for a visa, that is totally inaccurate. US embassy make money out of issueing pointless visas to people who can truthfully pass the requirements for VWP travel.

Only certain arrests and convictions mean you need a visa.

In the case of fraud, you fail ESTA and need to apply for a visa. Fraud is a CiMT. AN arrest for fraud means you fail on that question.

Any other answer is wrong, anyone that states the US can't get access to UK PNC is wrong, anyone that states you should commit immigration fraud is an imbecile - its anything from a maximum of 2 to a maximum of 10 years jail time for that little lark.

On a positive note, an arrest without conviction is more likely to get him a B-2. B-2s can have a 6 month stay duration. The embassy know the UK police attitute of arrest any poor sod first just for the fun of it.

jonesMUFCforever

Well all I would say is that I would not believe you as you don't believe me on this point.
I would not pay for a flight and hotel unless I was certain they would let me into the country.
This thread will now run and run - some will agree with me and some won't.

davebr1

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

Well all I would say is that I would not believe you as you don't believe me on this point.
I would not pay for a flight and hotel unless I was certain they would let me into the country.

You do not have a right to enter the US. Only american citizens do. Everyone else just hopes to be let in. Even having a visa does not give you the right to enter. You can kick up a fuss before an immigration judge if you have one, but thats all.

So on your point you never go to the states as you can never be guaranteed entry?

And if you want the advice from the London US embassy it'll be "you need a visa for any arrest or conviction". (Other US embassies actual tell you only certain arrests make you ineligible) I've saved the guy £1.50 a minute or whatever it is. I recommend you read the questions on ESTA, especially this bit that you are signing

"I, the applicant, hereby certify that I have read, or have had read to me, all the questions and statements on this application and understand all the questions and statements on this application."

As you don't seem to understand what is being asked if you beleive an arrest makes you ineligible to use the VWP.

Bottom line on this, an arrest for fraud means you CANNOT use the VWP and need a visa.

jonesMUFCforever

I have never been arrested so I know that I would qualify under the ESTA.
I also know in theory they could refuse me entry as could any country I deem to visit.
What I answered was that OP needs concrete advice from a proper source not an open forum - that is all and IMO the Americam embassy are the best people to do this (I know about the £ per minute telephone line etc).

agrinnall

Our newbie poster seems to be contradicting himself anyway - first he says don't ring the US Embassy for advice as they'll try to sell you a visa, then in the next breath says that in the OP's brother's circumstances he should not use ESTA and should apply for a B-2 visa.

Make your mind up!

davebr1

agrinnall wrote: »

Our newbie poster seems to be contradicting himself anyway - first he says don't ring the US Embassy for advice as they'll try to sell you a visa, then in the next breath says that in the OP's brother's circumstances he should not use ESTA and should apply for a B-2 visa.

Make your mind up!

You don't ring the US embassy as the ONLY advice they will give is that you need a visa even if the laws in the US state that you don't. Seems clear to me.

The second bit states that the OPs brother NEEDS a visa. The OP can apply through ESTA if he wants, but he fails it on criminality. Only option then is to get a visa.

Care to point out where you're having trouble with those statements.

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

What I answered was that OP needs concrete advice from a proper source not an open forum - that is all and IMO the Americam embassy are the best people to do this

The US embassy cannot and won't give advice over the phone. These calls are routed to a call centre in Scotland handled by script monkeys. Only thing they well tell you is you need to come in for a visa. So that process is pointless.

If the OP wants legal advice he should see a specialist US immigration lawyer, however, it should be noted that fraud is a CiMT, and an arrest for fraud stops the person using the VWP.

Taken from FAM

9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.2 Defining “Moral Turpitude” (CT:VISA-1506; 09-07-2010)

Statutory definitions of crimes in the United States consist of various
elements, which must be met before a conviction can be supported. Some
of these elements have been determined in judicial or administrative
decisions to involve moral turpitude. A conviction for a statutory offense will
involve moral turpitude if one or more of the elements of that offense have
been determined to involve moral turpitude. The most common elements
involving moral turpitude are:

(1) Fraud;

Rates quite highly on the scale, actually its number 1 !

tranmereforever

Hello thanks for all the replies,

I will get him to apply for a visa then and hopefully he will be okay

Would be a real shame if he is unable to on the basis of an arrest that was dropped

I understand that its up to America who they let in etc and I love it out there myself but seems very harsh that someone who is innocent be refused, if he had a conviction that would be different

Hopefully he will get a tourist visa for it,fingers crossed

davebr1

He should get a copy of his police record from the PNC and see exactly what he was arrested for. (Seems silly, I know, but sometimes misunderstandings can happen at that stage and hes been arrested for something entirely different).

Also he should see about getting his record deleted from the PNC - including fingerprints and DNA. Unlikely to happen, although it has occured in the past.

The questions on the VWP are, IMO, too complex (which tends to keep immigration lawyers piled high in work and money). Life would be easier if it was akin to Australias question, which most people have absolutely no trouble with!