Can church grounds be used as a playground?

abankerbutnotafatcat

There is a church close to us and its car park backs onto our garden. Naturally, enough we bought the property expecting traffic on days/times of services but for it to be quiet at other times. Was this a reasonable expectation and if so is this expectation likely to be upheld by the council I.e. do planning permission/use of land issues prevent them from using it for things other than church business?

Outside of church hours, congregation members (presumably because the church is locked) use the grounds as a playground. Now I don't want to appear grumpy, I'm all for children being outside playing but these children seem to be given the mandate of 'we'll take you somewhere (not our own gardens where you might disturb our neighbours) and you can go wild and scream at the tops of your voices'!. It's the high pitched little girls who are the worst. And to clarify, there are no significant blocks of flats I.e. properties without gardens within a mile radius and there are several nice playgrounds and two commons. These families don't like to mix though.

It isn't just the noise (which coincides with the very times we'd like to open our windows) but we also get footballs kicked in our back garden and, after a youngster is sent round to ring on our doorbell, we go into the garden to find their parent hanging over our fence monkey-style trying to see where the ball has gone.

We've put up with it until now through a combination of tolerance, inertia and not wanting to fall out with our neighbours (including fear of the consequences) plus we have no way of contacting our neighbours except perhaps there is a letterbox but that is all. I should clarify at this point, we are talking about a non-mainstream, secretive religion here.

So my question, before we approach the church and/or the council, does the right to operate as a house of worship allow them to have children playing in their grounds?

Errata

a non-mainstream, secretive religion

Scientolgists?

abankerbutnotafatcat

I don't really want to get into specifics, I mentioned only to explain perhaps why the parents prefer their children to play in a car park rather than in the gorgeous, grassy expanse of the nearby common and also why handling this matter was more complicated than simply popping into the vicarage for a friendly chat over a cup of tea.

Richard_Webster

Possibly the adults have some kind of church meeting and the children ned to be occupied and so play outside.

Unlikely that this sort of activity in itself would not be allowed under planning law, but I do think it is reasonable for you to approach the church and explain your concerns. Be polite and explain your concerns. Church probably will not want to get a bad reputation with e neighbours.

VfM4meplse

abankerbutnotafatcat wrote: »

we go into the garden to find their parent hanging over our fence monkey-style trying to see where the ball has gone.

Not acceptable! 2 points where you have redress are:

• privacy
• damage to your fence

If it's a secretive group they should at least respect the first point. Start a friendly dialogue and then take it from there.

abankerbutnotafatcat

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Possibly the adults have some kind of church meeting and the children ned to be occupied

No, that definitely isn't the case. It is when the car park is empty. The children are specifically brought into the church grounds to play.

Richard_Webster

Maybe then they are providing some kind of organised facility for local children?

You maybe don't want to reveal the location but usually it will have a name like [Name of Place] [description - Baptist, Pentecostal, Vineyard, Community, etc]. What kind is it?

I would try to talk to the people involved. It is very annoying for someone to get a letter out of the blue complaining about something.

So please don't fire off letters without first making a reasonable effort to talk to those involved and find out what they are doing and see how they can make the activity less of a concern to you.

JQ.

abankerbutnotafatcat wrote: »

we bought the property expecting traffic on days/times of services but for it to be quiet at other times.

Perhaps, the above highlights your problem. I personally wouldn't expect a church to be quiet. Our village church has stuff going on all the time. There are all sorts of classes for adults and children alike both during the day and in the evenings. My kids attend several classes mid-week during the day, and they're definitely not quiet.

I think the expectation that living adjacent to a commercial communal facility is going to be quiet is unrealitstic, after all that's what a church is.

If you do want to take it further, as Richard says above, speak to them directly and have a sensible conversation. If that gets you knowhere it might be worth making an appointment and speaking to your local Town Planner at the council. I have no idea what the restrictions are on churches but it may be a planning issue. I doubt they would be in breach of planning but, that would be my first port of call.

seven-day-weekend

If they own the building and car park, then I don't see why they should not allow children to play on it, but of course the noise and privacy issues are a different matter and should be taken up with the church leader/trustees in the first instance.

(Richard Webster, our church is a brand new building near the city centre and just says 'L********* Centre' on it, and has been mistaken for a gym, a hotel and a private health clinic They don't all say such-and-such church or have a denomination on! ).

fiscalfreckles

I don't think there is any law against it; I live next door to a church & attached hall which has a morning nursery, a toddler group one afternoon a week & can be hired for birthday parties. There is a gated & fenced purpose built playground which is well used by all of the above (although not "out of hours" as they lock the gates) & does create some noise, but I don't really mind it.
If it is disturbing you, just tell somebody at the church. We have only ever had to speak to them about an evening zumba class, of all things, the music was so loud it really was intrusive. They had a word with the organiser & it has been turned down.
I think there has to be a bit of give & take here. You live next to a building that will generate noise & must have some degree of tolerance. However the church has a duty to respect its neighbours & I'm sure you can sort this out with a simple chat, or a polite note.
But I don't think you have any actual legal grounds as you describe so I wouldn't be too heavy handed.

giddypenguin

To be fair, you should have thought of it as a community building - which would be frequently in use.

However, not much point in saying that now. I would recommend writing a POLITE letter to the church leader (should be able to find out by google) expressing your concerns - either way a car park doesn't sound to be the savest place to play. I assume they will have some sort of policy for responding to neighbours with worries.

We had a letter from a new resident asking us not to ring our bells as it wakes their children up... bells have been rung there for 100 years at least!! Still we had to respond...