Probate/intestacy stalemate query

RAS

Ring the Land registry or pm their rep on here. It stops him selling the house or putting it into his name or raising a mortgage on it..

Land_Registry

Having read through the thread it is probably of no suprise that the property is still registered in the names of your grandparents. To change this probate or letters of administration would normally be required and to date it appears this has yet to happen.

RAS refers to registering your mother's interest and in this regard you should probably be referring to our Practice Guide 19 . I would however stress that you should seek legal advice on this as well especially with regards what constitutes a sufficient interest in the property. You need to understand what your legal rights are with regards the property.

Other posters have already referred to the differences between probate and letters of administration but I did not read what the outcome was of any contact with the Probate office - has your uncle applied for either? If not then are you able to and if not what were the reasons given?
That aspect may have stalled as a result of caveats placed by one or both of you but the Probate office should be able to advise.

Note - the only other aspect which may or may not have an impact is of course how the property was held by your grandparents as well. Did your grandfather's share in the property pass to her automatically for example? I suspect that is the case or it would presumably have been mentioned already here but it may have some bearing going forward with regards how the registered legal title and beneficial titles are dealt with once the other issues are resolved.

posttokev

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

Having read through the thread it is probably of no suprise that the property is still registered in the names of your grandparents. To change this probate or letters of administration would normally be required and to date it appears this has yet to happen.

RAS refers to registering your mother's interest and in this regard you should probably be referring to our Practice Guide 19 . I would however stress that you should seek legal advice on this as well especially with regards what constitutes a sufficient interest in the property. You need to understand what your legal rights are with regards the property.

Other posters have already referred to the differences between probate and letters of administration but I did not read what the outcome was of any contact with the Probate office - has your uncle applied for either? If not then are you able to and if not what were the reasons given?
That aspect may have stalled as a result of caveats placed by one or both of you but the Probate office should be able to advise.

Note - the only other aspect which may or may not have an impact is of course how the property was held by your grandparents as well. Did your grandfather's share in the property pass to her automatically for example? I suspect that is the case or it would presumably have been mentioned already here but it may have some bearing going forward with regards how the registered legal title and beneficial titles are dealt with once the other issues are resolved.

Hi there. Thanks a lot for the response.

Up to this point we have absolutely no idea as to my uncle's actions in this matter, other than the letter received by my mother last week to say that, after over 12 months, he's now in a position to instigate proceedings. He's withholding all information until he absolutely has to impart it.

As far as I know, the property would have passed automatically to my grandmother upon my grandfather's death in 2008. What would be the significance of this moving forward?

Land_Registry

Joint owners will often hold the property as beneficial joint tenants i.e. when one dies their share in the property passes to the survivor. They have the option though of holding it as tenants in common whereby for example they might leave their share to a third party. The different types of ownership are explained in our Public Guide 18

It's significance in this instance ss probably only likely if they held it as tenants in common - see section 3 of the guide as to how you can check on this.

AMILLIONDOLLARS

posttokev wrote: »

Hi there. Thanks a lot for the response.

Up to this point we have absolutely no idea as to my uncle's actions in this matter, other than the letter received by my mother last week to say that, after over 12 months, he's now in a position to instigate proceedings. He's withholding all information until he absolutely has to impart it.

As far as I know, the property would have passed automatically to my grandmother upon my grandfather's death in 2008. What would be the significance of this moving forward?

Let him, it's his money, and you'll finally get to see what he is claiming. You will have to employ your own Solicitors I'm afraid. Why not go for an initial consultation, then depending on costs you'll know where you stand. One way or another you will have to defend this action. Guessing what he is up to won't solve this problem either.

AMD

posttokev

AMILLIONDOLLARS wrote: »

Let him, it's his money, and you'll finally get to see what he is claiming. You will have to employ your own Solicitors I'm afraid. Why not go for an initial consultation, then depending on costs you'll know where you stand. One way or another you will have to defend this action. Guessing what he is up to won't solve this problem either.

AMD

Thanks AMD. We've actually had a solicitor on this for a year but we're not happy with him for a few reasons, and particularly because it's been 12 months of pretty much no movement on this but it's still cost my mother around £5,000 in legal fees. We're having a consultation with a different solicitor this afternoon for an alternative viewpoint on the whole thing. We'll decide then whether to go with a new solicitor or persist with the original. Does it look bad if you change solicitors or is it neither here nor there?

AMILLIONDOLLARS

If you are not happy, move. It's doesn't matter whether it looks bad or not. What I will say, for £5000 you need an itemised bill and if you think its excessive, put in a complaint to the Law Society give them a call on this first, on how you need to proceed.

Good luck this afternoon and remember to take everything with you, no matter how trival. And ask about a set fee.

AMD

madbadrob

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

They have the option though of holding it as tenants in common whereby for example they might leave their share to a third party. The different types of ownership are explained in our Public Guide 18

.

That is exactly the point I raised at the start of this thread and didnt get an answer

ROb

posttokev

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

Joint owners will often hold the property as beneficial joint tenants i.e. when one dies their share in the property passes to the survivor. They have the option though of holding it as tenants in common whereby for example they might leave their share to a third party. The different types of ownership are explained in our Public Guide 18

It's significance in this instance ss probably only likely if they held it as tenants in common - see section 3 of the guide as to how you can check on this.

I'll have a read through now. Thanks again.

posttokev

Here's what came out of our solicitors meeting yesterday...


The copy will could be treated as valid. (Not just a definite case of "the original will's gone so my grandmother's died intestate.)

Is the person who actually wrote the will a solicitor? (As opposed to a will writer. A will writing company may not have done the job correctly.)

The judge will take into account all the efforts by my mother to resolve the matter before it reaches court and my uncle's refusal to do so.

Solicitors can destroy files after 6 years. We want to see their files within this period. (By June 2015.)

Is there a letter of intention/statement of intention accompanying the will?

Use a barrister.

Was my uncle present in the room at the solicitor/will writer's office when the will was written? (He shouldn't have been.)

Letters of Administration: only really relevant if the will is scrapped.

The failure by my grandmother to replace her "stolen" strengthens my mother's arguments regarding my grandmother's intentions for her estate.

Can challenge the validity of the witnesses if necessary. (My uncle had rounded up 10 witnesses - relatives and neighbours - who all said words to the effect that my grandmother was constantly talking about her will and her estate and how she wanted everything to go to my uncle. My grandmother was very private about financial matters so we don't believe a word of it.)

Can press for a "Deed of Variation".

Can press for pre-action disclosure.


Still undecided about whether to change solicitors. The view we got yesterday was that, while the charges of the current solicitor for the work done in the last 12 months do seem on the high side, they're not way off the scale.