Probate/intestacy stalemate query

posttokev

rpc wrote: »

If you go down the route of the Inheritance Act, you are basically saying that the will your uncle has is valid but should be varied.

The best line to take IMHO is to maintain that there was no will and the death was intestate. Then you need to make the argument that the copy your uncle has does not constitute a valid will.

That's a very good point. It's hard to know how to approach this, as a case about a valid will or an invalid will. (Technically, the will's invalid as there's no original, but as I've learned, it's not quite as simple as that.)

AMILLIONDOLLARS

posttokev wrote: »

He will be, but it's not as straightforward as that. In the absence of the original, the photocopy may well not be accepted as valid. This is why he got in touch with my mother a year ago to ask her to sign the entire estate over to him.

My late husband and I both made Wills the signed and witnessed Originals were lodged with the Solcitors and we were both given photocopies. Unfortunately my husband has now passed, in order to speed things up the solicitor has been working from my photocopies. I am presuming that if the copies did not show the relevant signatures, he would have to dig around his Archives for the originals. So surely if the copy is not signed, its not worth the paper its written on.

AMD

posttokev

AMILLIONDOLLARS wrote: »

My late husband and I both made Wills the signed and witnessed Originals were lodged with the Solcitors and we were both given photocopies. Unfortunately my husband has now passed, in order to speed things up the solicitor has been working from my photocopies. I am presuming that if the copies did not show the relevant signatures, he would have to dig around his Archives for the originals. So surely if the copy is not signed, its not worth the paper its written on.

AMD

This is something I'll need to clarify, if the copy has been signed. (And whether it makes any difference if the signature is a photocopy along with the rest of the document.)

AMILLIONDOLLARS

If the copy had been signed, I think your Uncle would not have sent your Mother a bit of paper to sign over the Estate. If anyone could present an unsigned copy of a Will, there would be mayhem in regards to Inheritance rights. I think your Uncle is not telling his Solicitor everything, what the problem in presenting the Will as is? To say the Original was signed is not good enough, any Judge would want to see a signed photocopy or the original itself. Seems to me some bluffing is going on, call his bluff!

posttokev

AMILLIONDOLLARS wrote: »

If the copy had been signed, I think your Uncle would not have sent your Mother a bit of paper to sign over the Estate. If anyone could present an unsigned copy of a Will, there would be mayhem in regards to Inheritance rights. I think your Uncle is not telling his Solicitor everything, what the problem in presenting the Will as is? To say the Original was signed is not good enough, any Judge would want to see a signed photocopy or the original itself. Seems to me some bluffing is going on, call his bluff!

This is exactly it. All the way along, and even beforehand when my grandmother was dying of cancer, he's been withholding as much information and been as evasive as possible.

prettyfires

I do not know if English law is the same as Scottish law in this area. In Scottish Law, please correct me if I am wrong, I understand if a person has occupancy of a property then they legally obtain a right to continue to live in the property, otherwise they would be made 'homeless' and in law you cannot make someone homeless.
I would suggest your uncle in selling his own home and moving in to the property has already obtained some legal advice....
If he has already obtained 'letters of administration', you will need to pursue it through lawyers and the civil court system - very expensive ( I know).
The Uncle may have a will he's not told you about, he may have been on the title deeds of the property - but your lawyer could have checked that out and whether he has applied for 'letters of administration' .
You Uncle may have been 'economical' with the truth and not mentioned to his lawyer that your mother existed.
The difficulty is this is all civil law and if you want to fight him you need to do so through the civil courts at your own expense ( tens of thousands...., a lot of emotion and a lot of time).
While this is all going on your uncle can strip the estate of all it's worth and the Police will not stop him because it is 'civil' law. You can spend years fighting him and win, but if he has spent it all, there will be nothing left to get.
Solicitors don't like these types of cases because it is so costly and the law really is ineffective in this area.
Contact your local MP and demand changes so future generations are not subjected to these inconsistencies and injustices.

rpc

prettyfires wrote: »

In Scottish Law, please correct me if I am wrong, I understand if a person has occupancy of a property then they legally obtain a right to continue to live in the property, otherwise they would be made 'homeless' and in law you cannot make someone homeless.

Not correct.

If that were the case, you could never evict a tenant/lodger/squatter and mortgage companies could not repossess.

There are special occupancy rights if you are married or in a civil partnership, but not named as a tenant or owner. That doesn't apply here.

posttokev

prettyfires wrote: »

I do not know if English law is the same as Scottish law in this area. In Scottish Law, please correct me if I am wrong, I understand if a person has occupancy of a property then they legally obtain a right to continue to live in the property, otherwise they would be made 'homeless' and in law you cannot make someone homeless.
I would suggest your uncle in selling his own home and moving in to the property has already obtained some legal advice....
If he has already obtained 'letters of administration', you will need to pursue it through lawyers and the civil court system - very expensive ( I know).
The Uncle may have a will he's not told you about, he may have been on the title deeds of the property - but your lawyer could have checked that out and whether he has applied for 'letters of administration' .
You Uncle may have been 'economical' with the truth and not mentioned to his lawyer that your mother existed.
The difficulty is this is all civil law and if you want to fight him you need to do so through the civil courts at your own expense ( tens of thousands...., a lot of emotion and a lot of time).
While this is all going on your uncle can strip the estate of all it's worth and the Police will not stop him because it is 'civil' law. You can spend years fighting him and win, but if he has spent it all, there will be nothing left to get.
Solicitors don't like these types of cases because it is so costly and the law really is ineffective in this area.
Contact your local MP and demand changes so future generations are not subjected to these inconsistencies and injustices.

Some interesting points there. He's definitely has thousands of pounds that's untraceable, as my grandmother used to have thousands kept in the house. (I think because she didn't trust banks.)

I got some Land Registry info last week which showed (what was) my grandparents' home is still in their names.

RAS

posttokev wrote: »

Some interesting points there. He's definitely has thousands of pounds that's untraceable, as my grandmother used to have thousands kept in the house. (I think because she didn't trust banks.)

I got some Land Registry info last week which showed (what was) my grandparents' home is still in their names.

Hi

Register your mother's interest on the Land Registry, as well as re-newing the caveat.

posttokev

RAS wrote: »

Hi

Register your mother's interest on the Land Registry, as well as re-newing the caveat.

Hi Ras. How would she go about registering her interest and why would you recommend she do this?