Housing Association service charge

Fire_Fox

Wywth wrote: »

Service charges are not usually just the cost of electricity, but charges for services provided.
A service charge is often about £200 a year before anything else - that's the management charge.
Service charges also usually include insurance for the property.

£20 to change a lightbulb seems excessive.
But does someone need to come and regularly check the lightbulb is working?
When I lived in a flat, we suggested the service company find a local handyman to do things like this. (they put an advert in the local newsagents which we paid for)
We got one who acted as both a handyman, cleaner and gardener, so sacked the gardening service team who appeared to travel 200 mile round trip every fortnight to cut the grass (they came from the same town that the managing agents were in 100 miles away), sacked the professional cleaning company that charged professional fees to run the vaccum cleaner over the communal areas, and did away with the freeholder's electrician who came from about 20 miles away and charged £80 per visit.
I remember the handyman charged £1 per bulb that needed replacing (at a time when they cost about 25p to buy). He checked them when he came to clean the communal parts.

£20 to change a lamp is perfectly normal bearing in mind it can include all the overheads, that would include the cost of the caretaker/ handyman where it is not billed separately. We previously had an issue here where we were double charged - a contract for a part time caretaker which included changing lamps but not parts, then billing for changing the lamp (so much that it must have been parts AND time, either that or he replaced every lamp in the building twice a week for an entire year). :eek: Nice little scam.

AFAIK social housing tenants do not pay buildings insurance, that is private longhold tenants (leaseholders).

t0rt0ise

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

- does the letter actually state the only service they provide is power for a light bulb ?
- does the letter state it will cost £20 to change the bulb when it needs it ?
- I'm assuming your three floors are rented from the same HA are they ?
- do they insure the building ?
- do they maintain the paintwork / brickwork / roof / grounds ?

The charges are itemised so I know what they are for. They don't check the light bulb and would only change it if we called them. And £20 for one go is maybe okay but it is likely to last years yet so by the time it goes, between the two tenants, we may have paid hundreds. And daft thing is that when it goes I'll replace it myself anyway.

Write and ask them to send you a copy of the actual expenditure costs of the services provided for the past two accounting years. Then decide, when you have the evidence in your hands, if they are being unreasonable.

I have emailed. If it is anything like last year they will reply and say they will look into it but then do nothing and I shall have to raise a complaint which will take a further six months to sort. Last year they charged us for things we don't have, depreciation of fire extinguishers and a door entry system. I got the charges removed but it was an effort.

Last year they raised the management fee from about £5 to £100 so I think they are trying to find money.

Fire_Fox

t0rt0ise wrote: »

I have emailed. If it is anything like last year they will reply and say they will look into it but then do nothing and I shall have to raise a complaint which will take a further six months to sort. Last year they charged us for things we don't have, depreciation of fire extinguishers and a door entry system. I got the charges removed but it was an effort.

Last year they raised the management fee from about £5 to £100 so I think they are trying to find money.

As per two posts write, e-mail is only semi formal communication, you have received formal communication so should respond formally. I don't see why you need to raise a complaint, if you get no response don't pay anything that is being queried or disputed.

If they send another bill write again briefly stating you await a response to your letter of 10/3/13 copy of recorded delivery receipt enclosed.

Wywth

Fire_Fox wrote: »

£20 to change a lamp is perfectly normal .

It is? :eek:

There you go, t0rt0ise, offer to change the bulbs in the local vicinity for £19 a throw, and you'll be quids in :beer:

Richie-from-the-Boro

t0rt0ise wrote: »

The charges are itemised so I know what they are for. They don't check the light bulb and would only change it if we called them. And £20 for one go is maybe okay but it is likely to last years yet so by the time it goes, between the two tenants, we may have paid hundreds. And daft thing is that when it goes I'll replace it myself anyway.

I have emailed. If it is anything like last year they will reply and say they will look into it but then do nothing and I shall have to raise a complaint which will take a further six months to sort. Last year they charged us for things we don't have, depreciation of fire extinguishers and a door entry system. I got the charges removed but it was an effort.

Last year they raised the management fee from about £5 to £100 so I think they are trying to find money.

HiYa t0rt0ise,

email & telephone is generally a waste of time in the bigger HA's. Write snail [do not put a telephone number of the letter] mail, then send the exact same letter two seeks later if you have had no written response. You will have a named individual responsible for your precise account. Additionally the HA will have at least one committee comprised of rent / lease / etc type dwelling owners who will intercede on your behalf with management.

£10pw is the London figure for Service Charges. Outside London this year the going rate is around 6% of the total rent so should be £5-£5.50 ish. Assuming there's no garden maintenance - grass cutting, outside safety lights, cameras, common area cleaning and security in my opinion you are paying twice the average non London rate. Can I assume you are rent only and not shared ownership or other variable of lessee ? Can you assure me you are rent only - and if you are rent only are you 'assured rent' or 'regulated tenancy' ? How many bedrooms do you have on your three floors ?

Why don't you just name the HA and we will have a look for you ?
You can personally ask for an appointment and meet your own rent officer.

Fire_Fox

Wywth wrote: »

It is? :eek:

There you go, t0rt0ise, offer to change the bulbs in the local vicinity for £19 a throw, and you'll be quids in :beer:

'Fraid so, they can charge for someone trained/ qualified to do it since there are electrics involved (elfin safety! ). No different to a minimum call out for many other tradesmen I suppose.

Richie-from-the-Boro

A light bulb reality

Insured risk is around 2mi££ion, most companies don't carry this level and can't enter even the bidding process. Frustrating two years getting it changed, only eventually managed by 'swapping' work tickets & call-outs with a housing association 40 miles from here. They do ours in their area we do their stock in our area.

Ridiculous, yes you bet it is. It took 2 years of banging heads and I'm into the second 2 years of insisting they swap entire properties & tenants to 'rationalise' what should not have been allowed to exist in the first place.

The reality of the 'light bulb' question is a man might travel for an hour on pay, works for 10 minutes on pay then travel back on pay, this applies to any kind of maintenance it puts the price up by a factor of 5. Now if you 'save' jobs to an area till there are sufficient to warrant sending a man you put complaints up by a factor of 5 sending the complaints ratio's and maintenance schedules off the graph. I'm sure there are HA's where all the housing stock is within a 5 mile radius, however I don't personally know of any, and putting 2-4000 homes inside a 5 mile radius is only possible in high rise big city environments or conurbations.

NOTE : Why this bottom flat has a 1000+ day void I've no idea, forward incoming voids are forecast, void turnaround performance figures are always available, how and why this dwelling was allowed to languish when so many people need a home needs explaining by the HA .. .. .. and fast. A whole mini-estate of 500 homes can have all doors and glazing done, new fencing perimeters and new central heating installed in 3 or so weeks - why three years for a single dwelling ?

t0rt0ise

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

NOTE : Why this bottom flat has a 1000+ day void I've no idea, forward incoming voids are forecast, void turnaround performance figures are always available, how and why this dwelling was allowed to languish when so many people need a home needs explaining by the HA .. .. .. and fast. A whole mini-estate of 500 homes can have all doors and glazing done, new fencing perimeters and new central heating installed in 3 or so weeks - why three years for a single dwelling ?

We're into a refurbishment situation of 200 dwellings which after a long wait, has now actually started. They didn't want to move anyone in as they need empty properties to use as temporary decants. It all makes sense, it's just taken soooo long to start.

With regard to the light bulb, we're not paying £20 for the bulb to be changed, we're paying £20 in case it needs changing and if it doesn't we don't get our money back.

Richie-from-the-Boro

#6 "Write and ask them to send you a copy of the actual expenditure costs of the services provided for the past two accounting years. Then decide, when you have the evidence in your hands, if they are being unreasonable"
#13 "The charges are itemised"
#16 "twice the London rate" & "You can personally ask for an appointment and meet your own rent officer"

If you are paying twice the 2012-13-2014 average, write, requiring an interview with your rent officer, ask them to send you an immediate copy of the actual expenditure costs of the services provided for the past two accounting years before the interview. When you get that interview as them to justify the 100% increase, have that meeting minuted, get the record in writing from them and refer them to their own 'scrutiny' officer or others who will intercede on your behalf with management. If you choose to do none of the above then refer them to their own 'scrutiny' officer anyway. However as a scrutiny officer myself I would not entertain your case unless you had made a real evidenced effort at finding a local resolution first.

NOTE : You used to be able to complain to the TSA now abolished by Grant Shapps to complain to, its now called the Homes and Communities Agency [HCA].

System

Speaking of Housing association I am really sick of the attitude of the staff of Metropolitan Housing Trust.

We have no light in the communal area of our hall in our area of my block due the the ignorance of my housing association.

The situation is this,I phone up my housing trust which is a customer services call center. You have to site on the phone and wait 30 minutes or so before someone answers. when they do answer after keeping you on hold for 30 minutes,playing music on the phone which drives you mad.

Then you get a rude and impersonal customer service adviser who says yes we will fix that light and we will ring you back to let you know when they are coming to fix it. And they don't ring you. That's one of the fob off of Metropolitan Housing Trust.

It's been 2 weeks now and we are still without light in the hallway. Because of the housing trust messing us about. I phoned them today and again the customer service adviser said she would ring me back but she never did.

When I went to the office I got a cold reception as I was greeted with,we don't see people without an appointment by my housing officer.

I remember when I used to be with a private letting agency when I had my last flat with a private landlord. with a letting agency it was different. The letting agent knows you and she would ask you how are you,how is your family. In short they treat you like a human being.

But with MT housing trust you don't get anything like that. They are just rude and impersonal and want to get you off the phone. In short they want to get rid of you.

Also I have knocked up big phone bills wasting my time on the phone with these STUPID people the housing trust. Never mind we won't see you without an appointment-I assure you, they will see me or else I will make a complaint to someone higher up above them over this.
Why doesn't MT housing trust just go to hell and burn there for all eternity. As they are a waste of space.