Housing Association service charge

t0rt0ise

I live in the top three floors of an old Georgian House. The bottom two floors are a second dwelling which has been empty for the three years we've lived here. It is owned by a Housing Association who pay for one light bulb in the common hallway. The light is on a 5 minute timer so it is never on for longer than that and only used occasionally when we come home after dark.

So just got the service charge bill for the next year and they want us to pay £250 for this one light bulb, coupled with £20 for changing the bulb when it needs it. They changed the bulb three years ago and not since.

Is this reasonable? They will be paying business rate I expect and maybe with a standing charge, I don't know. But it seems a lot to me. Any opinions?

Ich_2

At 13p per unit it would cost about £56 per year to run if it were on 24 hours a day, so that seems a bit excessive

Fire_Fox

Are you SURE that is all that is on the communal electricity - no hardwired fire alarm, emergency lighting, outdoor lighting, key swipe entry system? How does the light trigger to come on, is it a PIR movement sensor? If there really is just one lightbulb and nothing else at all, ask them to switch to a 'no standing charge' tariff.

What does your tenancy agreement say about the proportion of the costs your flat is liable for? Are you liable for half, if so are they charging £500 a year for energy? Ignore the fact that the downstairs duplex is empty, that could well be a red herring.

t0rt0ise

Just the light. It comes on with a pushbutton that takes 5 minutes to unpush itself. I timed it ages ago so I know it's 5 minutes. We don't have swipe cards or outside lights.

The £250 is the total cost and we pay half. I just thought to check last year's fee, our half was £39.77 so a bit of an increase there. I don't know if there are any business tariffs without a standing charge.

There are rules about what they can charge in rent, they charge us the highest they are allowed, but there appear to be no rules about service charges.

[Deleted User]

AFAIK they are not allowed to make a profit on the "re-sale"of electricity only a small admin fee,tell them if they prefer they can wire the bulb into your supply

Richie-from-the-Boro

t0rt0ise wrote: »

I live in the top three floors of an old Georgian House. The bottom two floors are a second dwelling which has been empty for the three years we've lived here. It is owned by a Housing Association who pay for one light bulb in the common hallway. The light is on a 5 minute timer so it is never on for longer than that and only used occasionally when we come home after dark.

So just got the service charge bill for the next year and they want us to pay £250 for this one light bulb, coupled with £20 for changing the bulb when it needs it. They changed the bulb three years ago and not since.

Is this reasonable? They will be paying business rate I expect and maybe with a standing charge, I don't know. But it seems a lot to me. Any opinions?

- does the letter actually state the only service they provide is power for a light bulb ?
- does the letter state it will cost £20 to change the bulb when it needs it ?
- I'm assuming your three floors are rented from the same HA are they ?
- do they insure the building ?
- do they maintain the paintwork / brickwork / roof / grounds ?

If there are two properties in the building then half of the total is a reasonable division of cost. £20 or even £30 is a reasonable cost for changing a light bulb. Now a reasonable charge for reasonable services carried out to a reasonable standard is what service charge is, and there are rules about how the accounting system 'costs' each item.

Write and ask them to send you a copy of the actual expenditure costs of the services provided for the past two accounting years. Then decide, when you have the evidence in your hands, if they are being unreasonable.

Fire_Fox

t0rt0ise wrote: »

Just the light. It comes on with a pushbutton that takes 5 minutes to unpush itself. I timed it ages ago so I know it's 5 minutes. We don't have swipe cards or outside lights.

The £250 is the total cost and we pay half. I just thought to check last year's fee, our half was £39.77 so a bit of an increase there. I don't know if there are any business tariffs without a standing charge.

There are rules about what they can charge in rent, they charge us the highest they are allowed, but there appear to be no rules about service charges.

Of course there are rules. Again what does it say in your tenancy agreement, 50% of lighting costs? Write to them and ask for a breakdown of this year's charges and explanation of why it is so much higher than last year.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Of course there are rules. Again what does it say in your tenancy agreement, 50% of lighting costs? Write to them and ask for a breakdown of this year's charges and explanation of why it is so much higher than last year.

- service charges are usually predicted, pre-set and changed in April
- the 'real account cost' is usually not known until the end of the HA's accounting year
- its usually by mid accounting year before they have a real 'grip' on the actual costs
- an honourable HA would (1) tell the tenant / leaseholder of any resulting surplus or deficit
- the (2) leaseholder would have the excess money returned
- the (3) tenant would have the excess money rolled into the following years service charge

Wywth

t0rt0ise wrote: »

I live in the top three floors of an old Georgian House. The bottom two floors are a second dwelling which has been empty for the three years we've lived here. It is owned by a Housing Association who pay for one light bulb in the common hallway. The light is on a 5 minute timer so it is never on for longer than that and only used occasionally when we come home after dark.

So just got the service charge bill for the next year and they want us to pay £250 for this one light bulb, coupled with £20 for changing the bulb when it needs it. They changed the bulb three years ago and not since.

Is this reasonable? They will be paying business rate I expect and maybe with a standing charge, I don't know. But it seems a lot to me. Any opinions?

Service charges are not usually just the cost of electricity, but charges for services provided.
A service charge is often about £200 a year before anything else - that's the management charge.
Service charges also usually include insurance for the property.

£20 to change a lightbulb seems excessive.
But does someone need to come and regularly check the lightbulb is working?
When I lived in a flat, we suggested the service company find a local handyman to do things like this. (they put an advert in the local newsagents which we paid for)
We got one who acted as both a handyman, cleaner and gardener, so sacked the gardening service team who appeared to travel 200 mile round trip every fortnight to cut the grass (they came from the same town that the managing agents were in 100 miles away), sacked the professional cleaning company that charged professional fees to run the vaccum cleaner over the communal areas, and did away with the freeholder's electrician who came from about 20 miles away and charged £80 per visit.
I remember the handyman charged £1 per bulb that needed replacing (at a time when they cost about 25p to buy). He checked them when he came to clean the communal parts.

I suggest you ask your HA/managing agents for a breakdown of the charges made and if you feel they are high, you make suggestions to them as to how to reduce them whilst still maintaining the service.

dogshome

What appears to happening here, is that the downstairs flat that has been empty for 3 years, still has it's services connected and as such is still paying Standing Charges for Elec at around £120, Gas if fitted another £120 and Water at ?

Some bright Spark at the HA has decided that as you are the only person using power from the empty flats meter, you should pay the entire bill and maybe the gas SC's as well

You are entitled to a detailed breakdown of these Charges - So the detail you ask for is meter readings, billing dates and the individual charges on those bills

Fire_Fox

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

- service charges are usually predicted, pre-set and changed in April
- the 'real account cost' is usually not known until the end of the HA's accounting year
- its usually by mid accounting year before they have a real 'grip' on the actual costs
- an honourable HA would (1) tell the tenant / leaseholder of any resulting surplus or deficit
- the (2) leaseholder would have the excess money returned
- the (3) tenant would have the excess money rolled into the following years service charge

I am aware of this, thank you, you can still ask for a breakdown and explanation given the massive hike. Estimates are still supposed to be reasonable and would normally be based on previous years spend plus predicted increases in cost. £40 to £125 does not seem to be based on unit price rises alone.