Bank of Ireland tracker mortgage % increase

in Mortgages & Endowments
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  • cs1800 wrote: »
    I have condition 6(m) it refers to conditions 69(o) to 69 (r) do you know what they are please.

    Actually they are making money from us - we are still above base rate, just not making enough from us.
  • HobbyHobby Forumite
    28 Posts
    dunstonh wrote: »
    And none of that makes it a mis-sale. It makes it a contract that has terms which may be considered unfair. Although that has to be determined.

    Mis-sale is when the person selling it does something wrong. The seller is responsible. This is a contract issue. Not a mis-sale issue. The provider has the issue here. Not the seller.

    This is merely your opinion. You are not the FSA or FOS or a Judge making an impartial decison. You are entiltled to your view , of course , but that's all it is.

    Equally my view could well be wrong but on balance its far more likely
  • HobbyHobby Forumite
    28 Posts
    Actually they are making money from us - we are still above base rate, just not making enough from us.

    cs1800 - I have them if you require them and they are very ambiguous to say the least. In fact the section that refers to changing the differential makes hardly any sense. The wording appears to have been constructed by a legislator after he/ she had been on the vodka
  • dunstonhdunstonh Forumite
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    Hobby wrote: »
    This is merely your opinion. You are not the FSA or FOS or a Judge making an impartial decison. You are entiltled to your view , of course , but that's all it is.

    Equally my view could well be wrong but on balance its far more likely

    So, if your view is correct, bank of Ireland wont be responsible. The sellers of the bank of Ireland mortgage will be response and it will be the sellers that have to pay up (assuming redress occurs) and not the bank of Ireland?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • noddynoonoddynoo Forumite
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    dunstonh wrote: »
    And none of that makes it a mis-sale. It makes it a contract that has terms which may be considered unfair. Although that has to be determined.

    Mis-sale is when the person selling it does something wrong. The seller is responsible. This is a contract issue. Not a mis-sale issue. The provider has the issue here. Not the seller.

    This is exactly it.
  • TTRTR_2TTRTR_2 Forumite
    4 Posts
    Ive been reading his thread with interest, but had to register to post so forgive me for being a newbie here.

    I want to make what I think are two important points that I haven't seen from anyone else.

    - I personally think that mis selling isn't really the desired complaint, as some point out that opens the door only to be restored to the original position. Rather I think what is desireable instead is what's called 'specific performance of the contract'. I'm not a lawyer but I did learn about the topic in college and its basically used when you want to force the opponent involved to do what they've contracted to do. I think in this case a lot of people would want the boi to continue to honour the contract as they understood it.

    - 2nd I read the PDF linked by an earlier poster and read that the condition can be invoked 'unless otherwise provided in the offer'. From my POV since its clearly started as a base rate tracker, surely somewhere in the offer, there must be wording that says something like 'to track the Bank of England base rate by X for the life of the loan'? Maybe someone should check their wording and see if there's anything sufficiently clear that would invoke this 'unless otherwise provided in the offer'. Some will bat this away with ' they have lawyers they've checked properly', you don't take your counterparts lawyers opinion as the gospel do you.....

    I don't have boi trackers but I do have other btl trackers and I will say that I specifically read the contracts cover to cover to ensure my lenders were tied to the boe as I knew mid 2000's that the were a little keen on their offerings and it wouldn't last.
  • HobbyHobby Forumite
    28 Posts
    TTRTR wrote: »
    Ive been reading his thread with interest, but had to register to post so forgive me for being a newbie here.

    I want to make what I think are two important points that I haven't seen from anyone else.

    - I personally think that mis selling isn't really the desired complaint, as some point out that opens the door only to be restored to the original position. Rather I think what is desireable instead is what's called 'specific performance of the contract'. I'm not a lawyer but I did learn about the topic in college and its basically used when you want to force the opponent involved to do what they've contracted to do. I think in this case a lot of people would want the boi to continue to honour the contract as they understood it.

    - 2nd I read the PDF linked by an earlier poster and read that the condition can be invoked 'unless otherwise provided in the offer'. From my POV since its clearly started as a base rate tracker, surely somewhere in the offer, there must be wording that says something like 'to track the Bank of England base rate by X for the life of the loan'? Maybe someone should check their wording and see if there's anything sufficiently clear that would invoke this 'unless otherwise provided in the offer'. Some will bat this away with ' they have lawyers they've checked properly', you don't take your counterparts lawyers opinion as the gospel do you.....

    I don't have boi trackers but I do have other btl trackers and I will say that I specifically read the contracts cover to cover to ensure my lenders were tied to the boe as I knew mid 2000's that the were a little keen on their offerings and it wouldn't last.


    Excellent information. This may well be very useful indeed. Thanks
  • motchmotch Forumite
    429 Posts
    ..............
  • HobbyHobby Forumite
    28 Posts
    dunstonh wrote: »
    So, if your view is correct, bank of Ireland wont be responsible. The sellers of the bank of Ireland mortgage will be response and it will be the sellers that have to pay up (assuming redress occurs) and not the bank of Ireland?

    To be honest , I really don't care less who is responsible for the contract error in redress terms. Whether its the BOI or the B and W I really couldn't care less.

    I also could not care less whether its a mis-selling or an unfair selling or an ambiguous clause in the contract ( of which I never received ) or a financial abuse by the BOI.

    My view is that I have a damn good case to take my particular case to court , should the FSA or FOS not decide in my favour.

    At the end of the day under those circumstances my view is the only one that really matters , but thanks for your interest and responding to my views.
  • TTRTR_2TTRTR_2 Forumite
    4 Posts
    Hobby wrote: »
    Excellent information. This may well be very useful indeed. Thanks

    Thanks.

    Just thinking about it a little more & I think that if for example there is wording in the offer that could potentially invoke the 'unless otherwise provided in the offer', then the course of action on a group basis might for example be to sue for specific performance and also to initially get an injunction awarded to prevent any rate change until he matter is decided.

    A good lawyer would know whether wording found could be used to mount a case and no doubt this will be a high profile fight too, so there might be a lawyer out there who wants to make a name for themselves as a champion of bank customers.
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