Town & City ticket... Help please!

nurseymcnurse

Hi All,
I would really appreciate some advice from you very helpful people on this forum! I have already spent hours reading posts, and taken advice. This is the story so far...
I went to a retail park to go to M&S, I have a young baby who was in the car with me so I looked for a parent & child space. There were several mixed in with disabled spaces. All the parent & child spaces were taken (2 were taken by blue badge holders). I waited for a space to become available by an elderly couple who had parked in a parent & child space, they didn't move. I had waited well over 5 mins by which point my son was crying and needed feeding. I parked in the disabled space adjacent to the parent & child space.

I'm well aware that i shouldn't have parked in the disabled space, and never have done before but as there were well over 10 free disabled spaces, I guessed anyone looking would realize that disabled badge holders were using parent & child spaces so I didn't feel I was depriving anyone of a space as there were so many free disabled spaces.

Ok, you get the picture. After I'd fed my son in m&s and done my shopping I came out to find a ticket. I spoke to the ticket attendant who said I should "appeal" and would likely get the ticket cancelled.

I came home and did some research on this site, and used a template letter to send to TCP. I explained my 'mitigating circumstances', I also noted in my letter that I had searched on companies house for the registered company number printed on my ticket, and it was not TCP but Smart Parking.

They have rejected my appeal (their word, not mine). They have corresponded using Smart Parking headed paper, and they have included paperwork for POPLA appeal. I had not requested this.

Now, I really don't know what to do. I was in the wrong for parking in a disabled space, but I feel the ticket was unfair given the circumstances. Should I just give them £30 and be done with it? Should I appeal to POPLA... Although from what I gather POPLA do not accept appeals based on 'mitigating circumstances'.

Apologies for long winded post. Grateful for any help.

Coupon-mad

1. Yes, use that verification code and appeal to POPLA with our help. You can use the first option 'I am not liable for the parking charge' and you can use info from this thread too:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4447137

and here's a thread with a website written by a poster here, about POPLA, of course you should do this as it costs the PPC money:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4263959

2. I have 4 kids myself. Please, please, you DO NOT need a special bay, please never use a disabled bay. Parent and Child bays are a gimmick, not a right, you should have just parked up in a normal bay, there should be no such thing as P&C bays because it causes this very issue with parents thinking (wrongly) that they have the same rights as disabled people. I make no apologies for linking this post I made earlier as I feel strongly about this issue:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/59198891#Comment_59198891

BUT

3. If you were breastfeeding (you do not have to say here!) then in fact you are protected by the Equality Act 2010 and the store cannot allow an agent to harass you like this. It's not 'mitigating circs' if you were nursing a baby, it's the law. You shouldn't have used a disabled bay but they cannot lawfully harass you either if your baby needed feeding and that was the only option (if breastfeeding). That's the only sort of instance where parents are covered by that Act.

4. I would complain to M&S as well as doing the POPLA appeal. Be assertive, you are a mother of a young baby, with potential to spend a lot with them over the years and it is NOT ON that a parking agent can harass you like this. Some Store Managers will cancel a fake PCN with a quick phone call so persist, and INSIST on speaking to the Store Manager - not 'Mrs Nice-But-Fob-off' on the CS desk!

5. Please let's see what you are putting together in the next few days as your POPLA appeal. We can help add stuff about TCP/Smart Parking as we know all about them!

6. Noooooooooooooooo do not pay!!!!!!!

nurseymcnurse

Thank you for taking the time to reply coupon-mad.
I have never parked in a disabled bay before, but your point is taken. I do however, feel that parent & child spaces are useful & provide extra space for safely dealing with pushchairs/babies. You are clearly far more experienced & adept than I!

I will complete the POPLA appeal form as you have suggested. I planned on sending a copy of my letter to m&s CEO, but I guess it could be worth contacting the store manager too. As above, the first link you've posted doesn't seem to work...
Thanks again.

nurseymcnurse

I have just spoken to m&s store manager; nothing they can do, although he was very apologetic. He says the land is owned by a private landlord and their staff have even had tickets which they have been unable to overturn. Not good. I said I have no intention of paying it, and M&S should think more about their customers when deciding where to rent land for their stores.

edward123

nurseymcnurse wrote: »

I have just spoken to m&s store manager; nothing they can do, although he was very apologetic. He says the land is owned by a private landlord and their staff have even had tickets which they have been unable to overturn. Not good. I said I have no intention of paying it, and M&S should think more about their customers when deciding where to rent land for their stores.

Did he tell you who this landlord is???

Stroma

I would complain to their head office then , it's complete rubbish that they cannot do anything. Don't be fobbed off like you've been with the store manager.

nurseymcnurse

He didn't tell me who the landlord is, but he did offer to- I didn't see any point though. I told him I would write to the CEO which I'm about to do. Thank you both for your comments.

Coupon-mad

MonkeySavingExpart wrote: »

CM

first link not working

Sorry, this is the one I meant:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4447137

...shows what constitutes a successful appeal in post #1. But I think that mulronie's wording is better, it's in post#27 and covers the lack of possessory rights of the PPC perfectly IMHO.

andybrock

nurseymcnurse wrote: »

I have just spoken to m&s store manager; nothing they can do, although he was very apologetic. He says the land is owned by a private landlord and their staff have even had tickets which they have been unable to overturn. Not good. I said I have no intention of paying it, and M&S should think more about their customers when deciding where to rent land for their stores.

Rubbish,complain to M+S head office as advised.
Probably just the standard fob off line.

Fergie76

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Sorry, this is the one I meant:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4447137

...shows what constitutes a successful appeal in post #1. But I think that mulronie's wording is better, it's in post#27 and covers the lack of possessory rights of the PPC perfectly IMHO.

Just reference para 4 of post 27 in the link

4. If a contract exists, and that contract is between myself and the PPC, the terms are unfair because the charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of the PPC's losses, and is thus a penalty.

That might need rewording, to combat the appeals that have failed recently due to (in POPLA's flawed opinion) that it is a contract term rather than a penalty. It might be worth rewording to make it unfair due to both parties not having the ability to negotiate the term.

atilla

nurseymcnurse wrote: »

I have just spoken to m&s store manager; nothing they can do, although he was very apologetic. He says the land is owned by a private landlord and their staff have even had tickets which they have been unable to overturn. Not good. I said I have no intention of paying it, and M&S should think more about their customers when deciding where to rent land for their stores.

So you didn't create a scene - and do so whilst taking advantage of their returns policy and asking how he thinks he'll recover your store loyalty?