Tenant or Landlord to replace LED deck lighting?

franklee

Ask the landlord for written instructions on how the change the bulbs. If he writes rip up the decking then use it as evidence it's not a simple change of bulb. If he gives you easy to do instructions then you can do them. it shouldn't be up to you to figure out how to do it, the landlord should provide this information.

bob2

pug_lover wrote: »

Hi Poppie68! Thanks for your reply! I'd love to know more! We've popped the units out of the decking and they are attached to a wire - seem not to be able to be pulled off the wire?

Are you absolutely sure? With many decking light kits each unit is detachable and replaceable.

Even if they are detachable, if they are sealed units you could argue that replacing the whole unit is beyond the scope of your contract which only specifies the replacement of "bulbs".

princeofpounds

I think you stand a decent chance of winning at arbitration, although I'm not sure as it is something of a grey area.

Tenants are normally responsible for changing lightbulbs, replaceable fuses etc. as part of their legal responsibility for acting in a 'tenant-like manner'.

However, ripping up decking to reinstall a fixture does not really strike me as being covered, as it involves work on the fabric of the property, even if the bulbs were replaceable (and they are not).

Good luck.

DannyboyMidlands

You rented a house with lovely red LEDs, signed a contract agreeing to replace lightbulbs, have basked in the warming red glow on many an evening and now want to wriggle out of your obligations.

If I was the landlord I'd sting you for the cost of a tradesman to come and do it.

DRP

pug_lover wrote: »

Thanks Guys!
According to our contract - the landlords obligations are:

To maintain all gas and electrical appliances and central heating system (if any) and make good or replace any parts which become defective due to fair wear and tear (except for light bulbs and electrical fuses) and not caused by any negligence on the part of the Tenant or invitee of the Tenant.

The tenants obligations are:
Subject to the Landlord’s obligations defined below to ensure all electrical gas and other appliances are kept in good working order and to pay for the immediate replacement of any parts which have become defective through negligence or ill- treatment by the Tenant or any invitee of the Tenant

I assume you haven't been negligent in your treatment of the LEDs?

pug_lover wrote: »

and to replace all light bulbs fluorescent tubes batteries and electrical fuses which become defective.

Thanks for all your tips!

An LED is neither fluorescent or incandescent in nature. Neither is it a fuse.


If this is what is stated in the contract , then I don't think the OP has any obligation to repair or replace the LEDs . Such LED units should last for 1000s of hours of use - perhaps they were fitted incorrectly (is there evidence of water ingress into the units? dodgy wiring?)

DannyboyMidlands wrote: »

You rented a house with lovely red LEDs, signed a contract agreeing to replace lightbulbs, have basked in the warming red glow on many an evening and now want to wriggle out of your obligations.

If I was the landlord I'd sting you for the cost of a tradesman to come and do it.

Since when is an LED a "lightbulb"?

ValHaller wrote: »

As the lighting string is just that and there are no serviceable replacements, I would argue that the lighting string is an appliance and that the LL caries the obligations in respect of that item - as the first line of defence

^^exactly!

DannyboyMidlands

"Since when is an LED a "lightbulb"?"

When it is used as a lightbulb.

Kynthia

DannyboyMidlands wrote: »

"Since when is an LED a "lightbulb"?"

When it is used as a lightbulb.

Wrong. A lightbulb is a glass bulb inserted into a lamp or other socket that provides light by passing an electric current through a pocket of inert gas. Whereas an LED is a Light-emitting diode, a semiconductor diode that glows when a voltage is applied. It is not glass and doesn't contain and inert gas pocket. LEDs also have 25 to 50 times the lifespan of a lightbulb.

The decisions to make here are; is an LED a consumable, as tenant's should replace consumables? Are the breakdown of the LEDs considered 'fair wear and tear'? Also would replacing the lights be 'tenant like behaviour'? Tenant's aren't always just responsible for simple and easy things that they can always do themselves, although many think they are. They are responsible for general maintenance and that can mean paying someone to do this if they are not capable. Therefore it's not clear cut.

DannyboyMidlands

Kynthia wrote: »

Wrong. A lightbulb is a glass bulb inserted into a lamp or other socket that provides light by passing an electric current through a pocket of inert gas. Whereas an LED is a Light-emitting diode, a semiconductor diode that glows when a voltage is applied. It is not glass and doesn't contain and inert gas pocket. LEDs also have 25 to 50 times the lifespan of a lightbulb.

The decisions to make here are; is an LED a consumable, as tenant's should replace consumables? Are the breakdown of the LEDs considered 'fair wear and tear'? Also would replacing the lights be 'tenant like behaviour'? Tenant's aren't always just responsible for simple and easy things that they can always do themselves, although many think they are. They are responsible for general maintenance and that can mean paying someone to do this if they are not capable. Therefore it's not clear cut.

I disagree. It's a little plastic bulb that produces light when I stick electricity through it. A lightbulb.

They look lovely on my Christmas tree. Similar to old incandescent bulbs but a bit brighter.

rpc

Kynthia wrote: »

Wrong. A lightbulb is a glass bulb inserted into a lamp or other socket that provides light by passing an electric current through a pocket of inert gas.

Most incandescent and halogen bulbs work by passing the current through a wire...

I agree that "lightbulb" normally refers to incandescent, halogen or CFL lights, but now that you can buy LED lights in ES, SES, B22, GU10, etc etc then I don't think that is a useful description.

There are two issues here:

1. Given that LED domestic illumination devices (will that do?) are very long life, is it fair to treat them as consumables in the same way as incandescent, halogen or fluorescent lights?

2. Given that these particular emitters of visible electromagnetic radiation (is that better?) are not easily accessible and supplied as a string of multiple lights rather than individually accessible units, are they the responsibility of the tenant ("tenant like manner") or landlord ("maintaining electrical appliances").


My view is that these are not a consumable item and therefore fall under the landlord's responsibility to maintain fixtures and fittings. Instructions from the LL on their complex replacement would further confirm this. As soon as you lift decking, you are outwith the responsibilities of a tenant IMHO.

longtimelurkersam

it is highly probable that by the time it gets to the "bulb" or whatever you want to refer to it as that it is now 12v. Can you locate where it is plugged in and check that it is a transformer?

Reason I ask is that I have these in my hallway as a runway and put them in when installing the solid wood floor. There is no way the floor is coming up to replace a unit so I just cut the wire about 12" from the bulb unit then rejoined the wires using appropriate connectors. When a bulb went I just prised it out, undid the connectors and then connected a new unit. Luckily I knew that mine which came from B&Q were supplied by Poole Lighting so I was able to get spares from them.

IF you feel you have to do it AND you know it is 12v AND you can unplug them then this might present you with a solution, ie remove broken units, find a similar product in B&Q or wherever then refit.