Nat West letter saying accounts are to be closed??

helentay_2

dalesrider wrote: »

You miss the point.

Had he paid either himself or his Mrs 1K less over the year there would have been no issue. What would 1K out of 90K mean?

They are simply taking out more than the company can sustain.

That is basic budgeting. Not rocket sicence. Also a sure fire way to bankruptcy.

As is his attitude to the bank and what has happened. He has just put at risk 2 peoples jobs and also their income. All because he did not like the way he was spoken too....

I think you need to have a hard word with him, or he will really could end up losing everything.

Or he needs to take a step back and think.....

How would he ADVISE someone else in that situation.

£590 against £188,000.00....

That is one hell of a loss for nothing.

Bankruptcy???? You cannot be serious.

Most of his income is invested every year. You seem to be under the impression that they spend every penny! That is so far from the truth. He has substantial cash holdings elsewhere as well as property both in this country and abroad.

I certainly wouldn't put him in the category of looking at bankruptcy!

Yes, that is my brother, when someone upsets him is one thing, someone that upsets his family is another! I know, I have had massive rows with him in the past if I dare to criticise anything that my sister in law does.

He won't lose anything at all, nor will he see his staff suffer, he is not that sort of person. He will simply put the shutters down for a while on his business, retain his staff on full pay until either the bank backtrack or he finds other banking facilities eleswhere. The only one to suffer will be the bank, they will be repaid in full on his terms.

Over the years he has been quite adept where banks are concerned. Many years ago in another life, he objected to his company being dictated to by a bank manager ironically at another Nat West bank in Redhill. His left them holding a debt of over £120,000 with no security to rely on. Also a Lloyds bank in south London was left with another unsecured debt of over £150,000 simply because the young, ambitious business manager suggested that he be given a percentage of his company in exchange for favourable lending facilities. He was
quite able to arrange what was then known as 'Phoenix from the Ashes'

I'm not saying that he is right, but I do feel that the current bank have gone a little too far given the situation and amount actually involved.

helentay_2

pmduk wrote: »

This is quite telling. The blame is being laid quite clearly at your brother's feet here. I wonder if his attitude and temperament were perhaps "over the top" whilst talking to them?

No not really that letter was the first indication that there was anything amiss. He 'lost it' when he spoke to the bank face to face yesterday.

Sommer43

Sounds to me as though the relationship between the bank and your brother has completely broken down. The letter to his wife suggests as much in that they're prepared to offer her sole banking facilities.

Helen

Your brother may well have made a lot of money, but he has shown poor financial management by repeatedly borrowing money from the bank without authorisation, looks to me as though the reason for the closure of his accounts is that they simply don't want his business any longer. Thousands, millions or hundreds, he's showing poor financial decision making by repeatedly slipping into unauthorised borrowing.

All for £578? It appears as though your brother has been somewhat arrogant in thinking "I turnover all this money and therefore I have a right to slip over into unauthorised borrowing because of the movement of all of this money"

That's the key indicator in anti-money laundering laws, "movement" Damage limitation is what the bank are performing under and the decision makers are not prepared to accept his explanation.

He should apply for an SAR on what the bank holds on him and he should apply to CIFAS, as he may well have trouble opening any other account based on what you've written here. He should also check his credit files to see what all three agencies hold on him. For a businessman who makes so much money, I am surprised he has made such poor decisions, but am not surprised the bank has made his decision. I have a business account and if I need a short-term overdraft, I call my business manager and he says yeh or neigh. If he agrees, I then get a letter outlining my overdraft facility. If I slip over, I immediately get a phonecall, along with a letter which follows soon after and the charges I received when I once went over were enough of a lesson to make sure I did not do it again.

Equally, if he's holding no stock, I don't hold stock, then his cash flow should be managed better, as it is a simple in and out facility, like mine is. I have very few overheads apart from my business phone bill. He's taken his eye from the ball and it has resulted in the closure of his accounts with sufficient notice. The bank may well have messed up somewhere with providing information, but your brother needs to sort this out calmly instead of losing the plot.

Paul_01

helentay wrote: »

I don't think that you have read the whole of my thread. A default has already been issued - 2 days ago! It was served on him yesterday. From what he knows and what he has been told by the bank, there is little more damage that the bank can do to his credit rating that hasn't already been done. So, using his words - in for a penny, in for a pound!

And the alternative way is?

I'll say one thing for my brother and that is that he will allow no one to get the better of him. Threats and intimidation mean nothing to him. However when the bank wrote to his wife telling her:

"Dear Mrs *****
Unfortunately due to a breakdown in communication with the other party to the above accounts we have to withdraw banking facilities forthwith.You may withdraw funds from these accounts but unfortunately any attempt to make deposits will be refused. Alternatively you may wish to remove the other party from these accounts. If you wish to explore this option, please contact your local branch.

Please be aware that at the expiry of 30 days from today's date, any credit balances still held in these accounts will be siezed and used under the right of set off".

he wasn't best pleased!

The default is only the first step, late payment markers and CCJ's on his credit file will follow - so yes it can get a whole lot worse for him.

The more you right about him the more he comes across as a bit of a wally.

Despite what you think, he will suffer some issues if he continues to dig his heels in.

The most sensible approach, it seems to me, is to rearrange his banking facilities elsewhere; continue working; do his best to see if he can glean any further information regarding why Natwest have done this to him.

pmduk

helentay wrote: »

he objected to his company being dictated to by a bank manager ironically at another Nat West bank in Redhill. His left them holding a debt of over with no security to rely on. Also a Lloyds bank in south London was left with another unsecured debt of over simply because the young, ambitious business manager suggested that he be given a percentage of his company in exchange for favourable lending facilities.

I wonder if this is related to the matter? Perhaps it may be better if his wife is the named account holder in future?

dalesrider

helentay wrote: »

Bankruptcy???? You cannot be serious.


I'm not saying that he is right, but I do feel that the current bank have gone a little too far given the situation and amount actually involved.

OK. You cleared up that he isn't heading in that direction.

But as far as the banking goes. He is running out of banks. Remember they do talk to each other.
Something such as this will cause a issue.

So as pmduk, as mentioned. perhaps he needs to take a back seat on banking and concentrate on running the company. Or if he's not prepared to do that. Then needs to learn to calm down. The banks will survive without him, but can he continue without them....

While he thinks he is comming away from this as beating the big bad bank. It's going to come back and bite him big time if he's not careful.
That letter Mrs recieved is the telling point on that matter. As far as his bank go they will no longer tollerate his manner or attitude to their staff.
This is something no bank does lightly. From my experiance, this will already have been refered to the highest level of the complaints team.
So as far as the bank goes there is no way back. Even going to FOS would see them fight it even though it's going to cost them more than the outstanding debt.

meer53

I speak to people like the OP's brother every day. Its nice that the OP is defending her brother but it's quite obvious that the brother is living in his own little world. A world where he thinks he can get away with things which we all have to abide by. The decision to close the accounts would have been my decision too.

Saying that he thinks "whats £40 over my limit going to mean in the grand scheme of things" is very arrogant. And dangerous as he has now discovered.

Banks will not tolerate customers who repeatedly ignore their recommendations, (to make sure that money is in the account to cover payments due to be made) to keep going over an overdraft when there is money going into the account just shows poor financial management.

An offer of £1 per week won't be accepted if the brother has a good disposable income. This will be decided by Natwest by going through his income and expenditure with him. Plus they will use right of set off if he doesn't make any payments at all. The best thing would be for him to pay in full and move his banking elsewhere. Although his issue with Natwest (and previous issues) may make this quite difficult.

Making an enemy of your bank is never a good idea but this is obviously too late for the OP's brother now. I hope he learns from this but i doubt he will. What has happened is going to have a very long, possibly detrimental, effect on his business, pity he didn't think about it before deciding he was a customer worthy of special treatment. He will struggle with any future requests for loans or overdrafts, will he think it was all worth it ? I doubt it. It's not Natwests loss, it's the brothers.

helentay_2

Paul_01 wrote: »

The default is only the first step, late payment markers and CCJ's on his credit file will follow - so yes it can get a whole lot worse for him.

The more you right about him the more he comes across as a bit of a wally.

Despite what you think, he will suffer some issues if he continues to dig his heels in.

The most sensible approach, it seems to me, is to rearrange his banking facilities elsewhere; continue working; do his best to see if he can glean any further information regarding why Natwest have done this to him.

To be honest I have had enough of this. I will pass on what everyone has said and say thanks.

I know what he is like, and the threat of a CCJ or even bailiffs will not shake his resolve one little bit. I have seen him seriously argue and become intimidating with a shopkeeper over shortage of change (22p)!

If he feels that he has been 'turned over' his words, nothing will stop him doing what he feels is appropriate and necessary to resolve the matter to his satisfaction no matter what the consequences are.

I have seen for my own eyes how in the past he has had motoring charges - speeding, careless driving etc just disappear with the help of his friends in the Met. I would be more than surprised if he didn't take the matter into his own hands with the bank. The bank may win eventually, but as my brother would say - it will be on his terms.

meer53

helentay wrote: »

To be honest I have had enough of this. I will pass on what everyone has said and say thanks.

I know what he is like, and the threat of a CCJ or even bailiffs will not shake his resolve one little bit. I have seen him seriously argue and become intimidating with a shopkeeper over shortage of change (22p)!

If he feels that he has been 'turned over' his words, nothing will stop him doing what he feels is appropriate and necessary to resolve the matter to his satisfaction no matter what the consequences are.

I have seen for my own eyes how in the past he has had motoring charges - speeding, careless driving etc just disappear with the help of his friends in the Met. I would be more than surprised if he didn't take the matter into his own hands with the bank. The bank may win eventually, but as my brother would say - it will be on his terms.

Your brother deserves everything Natwest throw at him. I can't understand why you are defending him.

I hope you realise that Natwest staff read these boards ?

Sommer43

helentay wrote: »

To be honest I have had enough of this. I will pass on what everyone has said and say thanks.

I know what he is like, and the threat of a CCJ or even bailiffs will not shake his resolve one little bit. I have seen him seriously argue and become intimidating with a shopkeeper over shortage of change (22p)!

If he feels that he has been 'turned over' his words, nothing will stop him doing what he feels is appropriate and necessary to resolve the matter to his satisfaction no matter what the consequences are.

I have seen for my own eyes how in the past he has had motoring charges - speeding, careless driving etc just disappear with the help of his friends in the Met. I would be more than surprised if he didn't take the matter into his own hands with the bank. The bank may win eventually, but as my brother would say - it will be on his terms.

Then your brother does you no credit, Helen, as many people here in this thread will tell you. Some of them work for banks from what I can gather. By your account above, he's some sort of gangster with "inside aids"

This is not about winning, the bank no longer want him as a customer and no branch will tolerate being abusive to their staff.

How would your brother react if someone borrowed £78 from him without permission?

You're commendable for asking for help on his behalf, but he sounds as though he's used to reacting in a combative manner towards most people. He's messed up and trying to blame the bank, when the bank have simply asked him to leave due to his poor financial management and decision making. His "how dare you treat me like this" will do him no favours at all.

Some people live and don't learn. Shame, because you sound a nice woman and you've gone to a lot of trouble to help him...