Fine from Wing Parking

HO87

Stroma wrote: »

It only confirms that they must not ticket a vehicle with a blue badge, and they are in breach of the Equality Act. If you are a militant type I would send to the management company a letter headed

Breach of Equality Act 2010 - Churchill gardens Estate.

There is no management company as such. The estate is operated by CityWest Homes which is one of many such so-called arm's length management companies set up by Borough councils. CityWest were set up by the City of Westminster.

I have been researching WP for some time. The deal that WP have is a recent one and I have not yet been able to establish whether they are contracted to CityWest or the City of Westminster. My best guess is that they will be contracted to CityWest - this will certainly mirror the arrangements they have in other boroughs.

The common feature of all the deals that WP have is that at no point is it made clear that the notices they issue are, for the want of a better expression, "contractual invoices". Not even on the websites or in the paperwork of the Boroughs/TMO's they work for is this made clear. All of the notices are headed with the relevant borough logo and not unnaturally people assume that these notices have the weight of statute law behind them and simply pay them. They most certainly do not the weight of statute law behind them - despite one Borough maintaining for a protracted period that they did - quoting various statutes, I believe, in an effort to fob me off. In every single case my FOI applications have revealed (sometimes very begrudgingly) that the Parking Charge Notices are "supported" by contract law - and nothing else.

For some while I was unable to identify by what route WP obtained DVLA data. I have my suspicions but sadly could not prove it. More recently they have struck a deal with Debt Recovery Plus to use them as a third-party processor (confirmed by DVLA) and obtain data through them.

I would be particularly interested in establishing what their "appeals" arrangements are with CityWest/Westminster. Nothing is immediately obvious on either of the websites and my experience is that one has to use FOI to obtain them. Some of the appeals arrangements they have with other boroughs of necessity mean that they would overrun POPLA deadlines.

Overall, my recommendation is to ignore. WP will badger and cajole. They may even threaten court action. However, I have yet to find, through FOI, any clear and unequivocal statements about court action they may take. My belief (I do emphasise that its a belief) is that they are not authorised to take court action at all.

gbu_2

Thank you for all the replies and links they were quite enlightening.

Out of interest though i emailed Wing but did not put my name and address as they request just to see there response and i have got one and have posted it below:-

First Appeal against Parking Charge Notice – 0000.....
Thank you for your recent letter regarding the above and we have noted your comments.
We have reviewed the case in light of your appeal and we confirm that the vehicle concerned was parked in an area where parking is restricted and that the area is adequately signed to that effect.
We also confirm that the Parking Charge Notice was issued as there was no valid parking permit on display.
Whilst we acknowledge you were displaying a disabled badge, the issue of the Notice was in accordance with our instructions from our clients as we have been instructed that vehicles displaying disabled badges must still display a valid parking permit.
This is also stated on the warning signs that have been recently erected.
Our instructions from our clients in respect of vehicles with disabled badges is that “Blue badge holders must clearly display a valid residents or visitors permit for the estate”.
The reason for the issue of the Notice is supported by photographs taken at the time and these also support our actions. If you wish to view images of your vehicle at the time of enforcement, you can do so on our website,
Please select the link that says "Enforcement Images" and follow the instructions. You will need to enter both your registration number and the reference number of the Notice you were issued in order to view the images.
However, please note that you DO NOT have to make payment or enter any personal data or credit card details to view the images
We have thoroughly reviewed this case and whilst we appreciate your comments and circumstances, we have acted in accordance with our instructions from our clients and the warning sign that was on display prior to the issue of the Notice.
The Parking Charge Notice was correctly and legally issued and therefore the Notice and the charges must stand.
We trust the above clarifies the situation. We will allow a further period of 14 days from the date of this letter during which you may pay the discounted charge of £60.00 and thereafter the full charge of £100.00 will be due.
If you wish to take advantage of this offer, please contact us prior to making payment so that we may make the necessary adjustment to your account.
We hope that we have addressed the issues raised in your appeal, but if you are dissatisfied with the facts of the reply, you have the option of taking your complaint further, to a Second Appeal, by writing directly to our clients within 14 days. If you wish to make a Second Appeal, please address your correspondence to:
The Service Improvement Team
CityWest Homes
21 Grosvenor Place
London
SW1X 7EA
The Second Appeal must be made within 14 days of thedate of this reply and must state why you are not satisfied with the First Appeal replyand must include any relevant new evidence. Please remember to quote your vehicle registration and the PCN reference
number. Please note that enquiries about appeals will not be dealt with by
telephone.
Yours sincerely,
Mrs A Gordon
Appeals Administrator

2 things i have quoted are :-

Whilst we acknowledge you were displaying a disabled badge, the issue of the Notice was in accordance with our instructions from our clients as we have been instructed that vehicles displaying disabled badges must still display a valid parking permit.

The idea of the diasbled badge is so i can pick up and drop off my mother in law as i have no residents permit, if i had a permit then there would be no need for me to use the badge.

The Parking Charge Notice was correctly and legally issued and therefore the Notice and the charges must stand.

So was it really legally issued and enforceable?

I know all replies have been to ignore and i am going to but just wondered how far they can actually take this.

Stroma

Just quoting the BPA Code of Practice, Wing are ticketing a car they must not, no matter what it says on their signs, the CoP is what they must follow

16.1

The Equality Act 2010 says that providers of services to the public must make ‘reasonable adjustments’ to remove barriers which may discriminate against disabled people.

16.5

If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people, if a vehicle displays a valid Blue Badge you must not issue it with parking charge notices.

PDF download.
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/BPA_Code_of_Practice_2012_Version_1_October_2012.pdf

Stroma

gbu wrote: »

So was it really legally issued and enforceable?

I know all replies have been to ignore and i am going to but just wondered how far they can actually take this.

No its not, best advice is to ignore them! And they can take it to the small claims, but they will not do that if you stop communicating with them

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

Just quoting the BPA Code of Practice, Wing are ticketing a car they must not, no matter what it says on their signs, the CoP is what they must follow




PDF download.
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/BPA_Code_of_Practice_2012_Version_1_October_2012.pdf

The problem, Stroma, is the bit that says "If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people". It seems that the landowner doesn't provide such a concession.

But I agree that ignore is the right route for now.

Stroma

Guys_Dad wrote: »

The problem, Stroma, is the bit that says "If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people". It seems that the landowner doesn't provide such a concession.

But I agree that ignore is the right route for now.

Yes they do they got disabled bays, so that is a provision

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

Yes they do they got disabled bays, so that is a provision

Didn't see that in post #1 and missed it in later post. Sorry.

Coupon-mad

gbu wrote: »

So was it really legally issued and enforceable?

I know all replies have been to ignore and i am going to but just wondered how far they can actually take this.

They cannot take this anywhere but you'll want to knock it on the head soon won't you because you won't want all their junk mail threatograms? Easily dealt with.

Reply and say you do not want to 'take advantage of' their 'offer' of a discount in what is clearly an unlawful penalty dressed up to imitate a real parking ticket.

Say that they have breached the BPA Code of Practice in at least two ways and you will be delighted to point these and other breaches and illegalities out to POPLA. Demand a POPLA verification code; point out that they have to either cancel the fake PCN or provide the verification code. They cannot fanny around with a 'second appeal stage' in writing to CityWest Homes - because the 'second stage' is now only POPLA (since October 2012).

You don't even have to give them your address yet - do this by email and tell them to pay for the data from the DVLA via their EDI link and send you the verification code - or simply email you back to confirm the fake PCN is cancelled if they do not want to have this adjudicated upon at their expense.

Then print out a copy of your email exchanges and put a covering letter with the prints, and send a complaint straight off to that so-called 'Service Improvement Team' at CityWest homes. Start by stating that your letter is NOT a 'second appeal' to one of their fake PCNs (call a spade a spade) but it is a complaint about the actions of their parking agent, Wing. And state that you are only providing your address to CityWest homes and have NOT provided it to Wing - who will have to get it from the DVLA if they wish to continue with their scam. Forbid CityWest Homes from passing on your name and address to Wing. Then outline your complaint re what happened, about the phone call you made, about the attached email exchange. Say that Wing have broken the BPA Code of Practice (cite 16.1 and 16.5 as already advised by Stroma) and have compounded this with another breach by pretending they can still run a two-tier appeals system when in fact they cannot. It is now POPLA or nothing (NOT CityWest Homes any more, that cannot be an appeal stage since the Protection of Freedoms Act took effect and POPLA came into play).

Demand that CityWest Homes tell Wing to cancel this farce of a 'ticket' and if they pursue it you reserve the right to sue CityWest Homes and Wing for breaches of the Equality Act 2010 because this is unlawful harassment of a person legitimately using a 'reasonable adjustment' of a disabled bay on private land.

And finish by saying you look forward to a reply including an apology from CityWest Homes and an explanation of what action they have taken to ensure their agent now follows the BPA Code, specifically regarding (but not restricted to) disability issues and in terms of giving out POPLA verification codes without having to be prompted.

The facts re these fake PCNs and POPLA are explained here by pepipoo forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=46975

and here's a thread about POPLA:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4263959

and a thread discussing a successful appeal to POPLA:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4447137

The point being that you will win your POPLA appeal if you come here for help to draft it when you get the POPLA verification code. There is sooooo much wrong with Wing Parking's fake PCNs, their stated 'two tier appeals procedure' and this incident in particular, it would be great to get this in front of a POPLA adjudicator at Wing's expense.

I expect Wing to throw in the towel when they see you know about POPLA and BPA code breaches though - or CityWest will make them cancel it.

demented_weasel

They (Wing Parking) have called it a "Parking Charge Notice" - this looks like another example of the impersonation of authority scam.

Coupon-mad

demented_weasel wrote: »

They (Wing Parking) have called it a "Parking Charge Notice" - this looks like another example of the impersonation of authority scam.

Indeed they all do. It's a shocking impersonation of a real parking ticket but all of them are up to the same game. IMHO there is NOTHING about 'parking management' in the agenda of ANY member of the AOS. It is all about the money - the 'bounty' as one infamous PPC calls it when trying to get new clients.