Is it easier for migrants to find jobs?

ohreally

silkyuk9 wrote: »

No they wont. There are lots of work unemployed can do, work that local councils do not have time to do such as picking up dog !!!! or chewing gum on main streets. cleaning rivers or tidying up rubbish on beaches

You're in danger of treating unemployed folks like convicted criminals by considering this - these are folks who may have fallen on hard times and be down on their luck.

How would you feel being in this posistion with the addition of picking up animal excrement or face DWP sanctions?

Leave this for community payback orders.

silkyuk9

ohreally wrote: »

You're in danger of treating unemployed folks like convicted criminals by considering this - these are folks who may have fallen on hard times and be down on their luck.

How would you feel being in this posistion with the addition of picking up animal excrement or face DWP sanctions?

Leave this for community payback orders.

I understand what you are saying, im not disputing the fact that there are people who have been made unemployed through no fault of their own. My job isn't secure but im always looking for a 'plan B' incase that day comes. What im talking about are thoese people who do not want to work because they are better off unemployed, such as my brother as my friend above has mentioned. These people know how to manipulate the system, and those who have been made unemployed by no fault of their own are not 'savvy' to the system and do NOT beat the system

AP007

silkyuk9 wrote: »

I understand what you are saying, im not disputing the fact that there are people who have been made unemployed through no fault of their own. My job isn't secure but im always looking for a 'plan B' incase that day comes. What im talking about are thoese people who do not want to work because they are better off unemployed, such as my brother as my friend above has mentioned. These people know how to manipulate the system, and those who have been made unemployed by no fault of their own are not 'savvy' to the system and do NOT beat the system

Like we say we aren't all like your family.

I can not 'beat the system' at all. It is impossible as they wont give me anything else.

The_ICT_Engineer

What a lot of tosh in this thread from the gullible members of the Daily Mail (Bigot) reader's club, who clearly believe everything that is preached by their false god's (Ian Duncan Smith and Jeremy Kyle) and often quote them.


When eight East European nations joined the EEC in 2004, the Labour government of the day predicted an influx of 13,000. The reality has turned out to be closer to 1.5million. A round a quarter of those new migrants came from Poland where living standards were four times lower than in the UK and the pay rates a sixth. The economic incentives for Romanians and Bulgarians are even greater than they were for the Poles and people from the Baltic nations in 2004.


The issue is far more complex: As long there are Employers willing to pay to foreign worker much less than to local one, this will attract people from poor countries willing to work for less money. I live in the Fens, so have first hand knowledge as regards local employment. The supply of labour is controled mainly by the gangmasters who perfer to use migrants. Not because they are hard workers, The real reason is down to the fact they can make far more money out of a migrant. How so you may ask?, It's quite simple, The migrants work six days a week, twelve hours a day for which they are paid below the minium wage. Half the the wage is kept by the gang-master for housing the migrants, often in hutments on the farm or next to the factory. A local would be living in their own home. Remember the cleaning company at the games last year, that require that the staff lived on-site and deduct half the wage for housing. Therefore ensuring that only migrants were taken on.


The migrants don't complain, this can be put down to that they are still earning far more then they would back home and a supply of cheap rotgut. Ten years ago, farm and factory work in this area was well paid.


As for the claim that the English have no work ethic. This common misconception has been spread by Ian Duncan Smith, Just as the worksly claim was spread by New labour.

Oversea's there is a big demand for British worker's, As they are seen to have a good work ethic and pride in doing a good Job.


I.D.Smith's policy is "Arbeit Macht Frei",the cry of the jobdeeker is "Gives a job that pays a living wage"

imatt

Pennywise wrote: »

There's plenty of simple/basic work to do that isn't being done. Litter, grafiti, grass cutting, hedge trimming, fence painting, etc. Walk down your street and you'll see things that need doing - unless you walk around with your eyes closed. How about simple maintenance of council buildings - i.e. decorating, weeding the grounds, window cleaning, etc. It's just not being done. Our village library is in a small plot surrounded by lawns - the lawns get cut twice a year - a right jungle in Summer! We have a circle of grass the the end of our cul-de-sac - council havn't been to cut it for at least a decade - we take it in turn to mow it ourselves as complaints were ignored. None of this is new with the coalition - work has gone undone for decades.

errr...just WHO's fence would you be painting? WHO's hedge would you be trimming? Private householders who should be doing it themselves? If it's pensioners we're talking about, then what about their neighbours? What about their younger relatives? Will people doing this work be CRB checked?

For example, there is a garden on my street that is something of a tip. Soda cans everywhere and the lawn is overgrown. Do you not think this is the responsibility of the householder?


As for council buildings and so on. The fact you cut the grass yourselves is public spirited on one hand. On the other, you are doing something you pay your council tax for. Do you think you'll see ANY reduction in your council tax bills for doing this free work? And just what happens if someone should injure themselves? Who then is liable, you or your local authority? And just what is the responsibility of councils these days? It is not as black and white as many here seem to think. So much work is outsourced for a start. So even if you did get people to do this work for JSA wages, they could be actually working for a private (though non-profit) housing association or worse an outsourcing giant such as Serco, Carrilion or G4s! No doubt further pushing down wages within these companies.

I work from home. I also do voluntary work at a local community centre. I won't bore you with what goes on there except to say that I personally know people who've personally benefited from the volunteering they did there. I know three or four that have found F/T positions and a couple more who have furthered their education. A stark contrast to the myriad of workfare schemes put in place by this and the last government. The actual community centre used to be council owned. It is now owned by a local co-operative who now have total responsibility for any further upgrades, decoration, maintenance, etc. Anyone not in the know will assume that this building is still council owned.

Dodgy training schemes in the past using teenagers as cheap labour has also resulted in deaths due to a lack of training and inadequate equipment.

Look at this example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz23HiXf-l4

This chap being sent on a workfare scheme to cut back trees has none of the below:

• Safety boots
• Hi-viz vest
• Goggles
• Tools
• Hard hat
• First aid kit
• Training of any sort

And why should he be given any of the above? After all, he is being asked to work for nothing. As such he is not valued. If calling his JSA a wage, bear in mind the landowner in this video are certainly not paying anything towards it! As a saying goes, you would not hire a cheap brain surgeon! Any yet, we are expected to value the work of people working for free and expect them to put in favourable time and effort. Surely a wage is adequate recompense for such time and effort?

silkyuk9

imatt wrote: »

errr...just WHO's fence would you be painting? WHO's hedge would you be trimming? Private householders who should be doing it themselves? If it's pensioners we're talking about, then what about their neighbours? What about their younger relatives? Will people doing this work be CRB checked?

For example, there is a garden on my street that is something of a tip. Soda cans everywhere and the lawn is overgrown. Do you not think this is the responsibility of the householder?


As for council buildings and so on. The fact you cut the grass yourselves is public spirited on one hand. On the other, you are doing something you pay your council tax for. Do you think you'll see ANY reduction in your council tax bills for doing this free work? And just what happens if someone should injure themselves? Who then is liable, you or your local authority? And just what is the responsibility of councils these days? It is not as black and white as many here seem to think. So much work is outsourced for a start. So even if you did get people to do this work for JSA wages, they could be actually working for a private (though non-profit) housing association or worse an outsourcing giant such as Serco, Carrilion or G4s! No doubt further pushing down wages within these companies.

I work from home. I also do voluntary work at a local community centre. I won't bore you with what goes on there except to say that I personally know people who've personally benefited from the volunteering they did there. I know three or four that have found F/T positions and a couple more who have further their education. A stark contrast to the myriad of workfare schemes put in place by this and the last government. The actual community centre used to be council owned. It is now owned by a local co-operative who now have total responsibility for any further upgrades, decoration, maintenance, etc. Anyone not in the know will assume that this building is still council owned.

Dodgy training schemes in the past using teenagers as cheap labour has also resulted in deaths due to a lack of training and inadequate equipment.

Look at this example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz23HiXf-l4

This chap being sent on a workfare scheme to cut back trees has none of the below:

• Safety boots
• Hi-viz vest
• Goggles
• Tools
• Hard hat
• First aid kit
• Training of any sort

And why should he be given any of the above? After all, he is being asked to work for nothing. As such he is not valued. If calling his JSA a wage, bear in mind the landowner in this video are certainly not paying anything towards it? As a saying goes, you would not hire a cheap brain surgeon! Any yet, we are expected to value the work of people working for free and expect them to put in favourable time and effort. Surely a wage is adequate recompense for such time and effort?

Its quite true what you say. Its fool harding letting anyone do jobs without training or special equipment etc. That's why its not really enforced its a dodgy ground. Cost too much to do? are the government saving money by not investing in this kind of project, would it take millions to do? If so why don't the government invest in other ways such as creating jobs or creating ways for people to learn new skills etc. Maybe its cheaper for the government to pay 72 per week? no law suits etc etc.

This all needs thinking out but again getting a consultant company to do the thinking would cost millions. Some councils are paying 3000£ per day on consultation trying to find ways to cut costs, they say it works out in the end so they pay the consultants fees.

I don't have the answers. I only have ideas

persa

Ok, let's suppose it is easier for 'migrants to find jobs'. What can you do with that knowledge, falko89? You're looking for work locally, so you can't become a migrant yourself.

I feel for you, I know you've had a rough time with work, but questions like these aren't actually going to help you. Comparing yourself to others who you perceive to have it easier is the fastest way to upset yourself.

Chin up, falko89. You're a grafter, you know you are, all you can do in life is keep trying. Don't get hung up on things you can't change, only the things you can.

saintjammyswine

dandelionclock30 wrote: »

.

In a certain part of my city theres been a major police initiative to deal with the drunken and anti social behaviour of some Eastern European migrants.They have had to up the police presence etc and do an infomation campaign about how to behave etc and not be drunk and anti social on the streets. Its even been in the evening paper about it.

Obviously its not all migrants it will be a small proportion.But there is an issue as its being dealt with.

The reason there had to be a special team set up is that the rest of the force were dealing with the British p1$$ heads in the city!:beer:

The_ICT_Engineer

saintjammyswine wrote: »

The reason there had to be a special team set up is that the rest of the force were dealing with the British p1$$ heads in the city!:beer:

The biggest !!!!head's are to be found in the Palace of Westminster, any night of the week, when Parliament is in session

TopQuark

The_ICT_Engineer wrote: »

What a lot of tosh in this thread

Absolutely spot-on, and everything else you said too.

High immigration is favoured by the powers that be, as by paying slave wages they keep more profits for themselves. As someone else said, many immigrants are willing to sacrifice themselves for a few years, sleeping in bunk beds and working 12 hours a day safe in the knowledge that they are building a cash pile to take back home and buy a house/education/whatever with. So of course they have a high work ethic for the short time they are here.

How can British workers with families to support compete? They can't. I think this is called the race to the bottom.