AA taking direct debit payments without third party consent

sparklesparkle88

Hi, just a quick query - would be great if someone had a bit of information or some experience with this.

The AA have been taking payments from my card for the past three years, as well as creating new policies rather than upgrading as requested (new policies = commission for them and a whopping £150 charge for us every year when we already had existing policies, always in boyfriend's name).

Anyway, I paid on ONE occassion on my bank card for roadside assistance rather than on my boyfriend's card. The AA have since applied my boyfriends name to MY bank card details and have been taking payment from my bank without my consent. An advisor at the AA even said himself that they need some kind of third party form with a signature from myself to say I consent of money being taken from my card. Instead, they have put the debit card in my boyfriends name (maybe to get around this third party consent signature issue?) and carried on charging it. The bank account has always been in my name from day one, never a joint account, always mine. I have never signed any documentation giving consent to the AA to take money from my account on a rolling basis.

Are the AA breaking the law by doing this and are there any legal avenues I can take? I only realised yesterday that they have been taking money from my account on a yearly basis (£100+ a time) and they admitted themselves today that it is a massive mistake on their part because I have never signed to say they can take from my account.
What makes this worse is we have also moved addresses and were unaware of this second policy they made so only changed it on the original policy (which is inclusive with my boyfriend's bank so we don't pay), so we have never had any written notification about any of this for us to do anything about it sooner.

This is only a small part of the story and I'm sorry if it doesn't make sense, basically a) they have created new policies when asked for upgrades, costing us hundreds of pounds a year and b) they have used my boyfriend's name on MY bank details to take money from my bank account without any signed consent (for automatic renewal as well as consent for using a third party debit card). I'm really confused by it and I hope someone can give me some advice on this; the AA are extremely unhelpful! :mad:

GolfBravo

I believe the AA don't use direct debits - they use Continuous Payment Authority.

Unlike direct debits, these are not covered by the bank guarantee scheme. Once you give your/your boyfriend's credit/debit card details to the AA, it is like saying to them "here is my card, take a payment whenever you think I owe you". Even when your card expires or you cancel it your bank must still honour the payments. With CPA your contract is with the business, and not your bank. And since you usually setup AA membership over the phone/internet there is no paper record. Convenient, isn't it.

The AA are real PITA when it comes to cancelling memberships and payments. They have taken me for a ride a couple of years ago - one of their reps who frequents this forum offered to help. But their customer service then didn't see a problem with me not authorising payments, and in their letter they gave me a full list of reasons why they think "they were right to take my money". Their letter conveniently avoided the issue of CPA.

The best thing is to contact your bank and ask them to cancel the CPA immediately.

sparklesparkle88

The issue is more because we called for an upgrade (bf already had an account but it just needed upgrading) and instead, the 'adviser' at the time decided to create a new policy as well as upgrade (so we paid £200 in one day when really should have only paid £60, but as long as they got their commission, eh!).

Ever since this dimwit in the callcentre set up the second policy we didn't want or ask for, I have basically been paying for it every year, THEN they decided to use my card details (and conveniently put MY card details under my boyfriend's name, saying it was HIS card rather than mine - they also said this was wrong and shouldn't have gone through) for this same policy that we didn't even realise existed. We have since moved house, we updated the details (thinking there was only one policy) but because they created a second one, we haven't been receiving the paperwork for that one as it's been going to the old address.

Boyfriend was speaking to one of their 'advisers' (I use the term VERY loosely) yesterday who seemed to think there was something very dodgy going on and that we would get our money back because they were at majorly at fault, and they were in fact the ones who mentioned this third party consent. He mentioned we would get the money back for the past few years (nearly £500) but I can't help but feel disgusted by the lack of courtesy keeping their customers in the know and randomly setting up policies just so they get their commission! Never deal with a company worse than these.

Carpi09

The AA set up a new account using my old bank account. At the time I had no idea this was going on untl I had a letter from this bank stating I owed £200 in overdrafts fees!

I phoned the AA right away and told them that they had took an unauthorised payment from me and that they are to refund it with immediate effect.

Following day, funds were returned to my account and I did not have to pay any OD fees to the bank.

sparklesparkle88

Carpi09 wrote: »

The AA set up a new account using my old bank account. At the time I had no idea this was going on untl I had a letter from this bank stating I owed £200 in overdrafts fees!

I phoned the AA right away and told them that they had took an unauthorised payment from me and that they are to refund it with immediate effect.

Following day, funds were returned to my account and I did not have to pay any OD fees to the bank.

They're terrible aren't they.

I didn't realise this was going on until Sunday night when I checked my bank account. My boyfriend spoke to them yesterday and they revealed that it has been happening for years. As you said, they set up a new policy we knew nothing about and it has since been automatically renewing without us knowing. What annoys me is the fact they have sneakily put my boyfriends name on my card details when they were told on the phone at the time that it was my card and it was a one off payment.

If that was a random Joe Bloggs off the street, they'd be in court for fraud and theft. But because the AA are a multi-million pound organisation, they're obviously allowed to do what they like. I'd not be surprised if I found out they had a copy of my card and my PIN number, they have more say over my funds in my account than I do.

If enough people complain about them to the likes of Watchdog, etc. maybe something could change at some point down the line. Imagine how many others who are paying for policies they know nothing about, the AA must be making a mint.:mad:

InsideInsurance

I cannot speak explicitly for the AA but in general call centre scripts or website T&Cs normally explicitly state that a continuous payment authority will be formed and if you give them a third party's card number you warrant that you have the card owners explicit permission to do this.

Basically they cover their !!!!!! fully and if you havent given your permission then it is the person that gave the card number who is to blame and will be lumbered with any costs.

GolfBravo

InsideInsurance wrote: »

I cannot speak explicitly for the AA but in general call centre scripts or website T&Cs normally explicitly state that a continuous payment authority will be formed and if you give them a third party's card number you warrant that you have the card owners explicit permission to do this.

Well, the AA website doesn't mention the continuous payment authority when joining them. They only mention it in their FAQ:

"How can I renew my breakdown cover?

We'll send you a renewal invitation up to 10 weeks before your cover is due to expire. This will include details of your renewal, based on your existing level of cover, and the various ways to renew. If you're not already paying on a continuous credit card or annual direct debit basis, you can choose a payment method to suit you."

I had the AA European cover a few years ago and, surprise surprise, never received their "renewal invitation", they just helped themselves to £150 from my old bank account (it was £99 the year before). And their customer service reps are adamant that there is nothing wrong with that, because the AA assumed that I still wanted to have their roadside cover insurance. Well, no I didn't want to extend their insurance.

And I bet that 95% of people taking out their roadside cover insurance have no idea what continuous payment authority is and how to cancel it, because when you purchase a 12 month cover you expect to run for 12 months only.

PS
The AA mention that CPA is there to help their "members" to ensure that their "membership" doesn't run out when they need it. Well, no, the CPA is there to ensure the AA have access to your money for the benefit of their cashflow (remember, you're not a "member", just a customer, they are a limited company), and they hope that their "members" will never exercise their right to cancel/forget about it, and the money will just continue to flow.

From my personal experience you really have to watch out when dealing with them.

InsideInsurance

GolfBravo wrote: »

The AA mention that CPA is there to help their "members" to ensure that their "membership" doesn't run out when they need it. Well, no, the CPA is there to ensure the AA have access to your money for the benefit of their cashflow

These sorts of things tend to be coloured by personal experiences.... if you forget to cancel and didnt want to renew/ bought elsewhere etc you tend to think auto/ assumptive renewal is a terrible thing

If you are on manual renewal and forget to renew/ claim you didnt receive the renewal offer etc then you think that manual renewal is a terrible thing

It would be interesting to see the rate of complaints about both sides after factoring in the fact that ~80% of people or more are on auto renewal.

For Motor insurance (rather than breakdown) I suspect it would be fairly close. I've seen many a complaint from people stopped by police for no insurance and/ or had accidents and found their policy lapsed X weeks/ months ago but they claim they never received their renewal notice so didnt know to call to renew (just as you claim you didnt receive your renewal notice so didnt know to call to decline)

Whilst there is a stronger argument with Motor (a legal requirement) and Buildings (frequently a contractual requirement) than other classes of insurance, generally the independent regulator is supportive on automatic renewal but does require all insurers/ brokers to give notice prior to the renewal.

The_AA_Company_Representative

sparklesparkle88 wrote: »

Hi, just a quick query - would be great if someone had a bit of information or some experience with this.

The AA have been taking payments from my card for the past three years, as well as creating new policies rather than upgrading as requested (new policies = commission for them and a whopping £150 charge for us every year when we already had existing policies, always in boyfriend's name).

Anyway, I paid on ONE occassion on my bank card for roadside assistance rather than on my boyfriend's card. The AA have since applied my boyfriends name to MY bank card details and have been taking payment from my bank without my consent. An advisor at the AA even said himself that they need some kind of third party form with a signature from myself to say I consent of money being taken from my card. Instead, they have put the debit card in my boyfriends name (maybe to get around this third party consent signature issue?) and carried on charging it. The bank account has always been in my name from day one, never a joint account, always mine. I have never signed any documentation giving consent to the AA to take money from my account on a rolling basis.

Are the AA breaking the law by doing this and are there any legal avenues I can take? I only realised yesterday that they have been taking money from my account on a yearly basis (£100+ a time) and they admitted themselves today that it is a massive mistake on their part because I have never signed to say they can take from my account.
What makes this worse is we have also moved addresses and were unaware of this second policy they made so only changed it on the original policy (which is inclusive with my boyfriend's bank so we don't pay), so we have never had any written notification about any of this for us to do anything about it sooner.

This is only a small part of the story and I'm sorry if it doesn't make sense, basically a) they have created new policies when asked for upgrades, costing us hundreds of pounds a year and b) they have used my boyfriend's name on MY bank details to take money from my bank account without any signed consent (for automatic renewal as well as consent for using a third party debit card). I'm really confused by it and I hope someone can give me some advice on this; the AA are extremely unhelpful! :mad:

Hello sparklesparkle88, we would like to look into this for you, please email the details to chat@theaa.com including reference FOR35483. Regards, The AA

They_make_all_the_rules

I have been caught out by the AA and a CPA! I had no idea what a CPA was, it was never explained or detailed to me.
I missed making the payment to the card issuer and now have a default on my otherwise perfect credit history. This is preventing me from securing a mortgage for my first home.
It is my fault as it was on a card that was otherwise dormant. I had to move home and failed to update my contact details. The card details given for payment had long since expired and no longer matched any card that I held. I have been informed that this is irrelevant. The details given are linked to an account and not a card so will be continuously updated by the card issuer. Being unaware of the situation the account ran into default and I now have all the serious long term financial consequences that are associated with that.
I accept that this is my own fault and have been taught a very severe financial lesson which is now causing me extreme difficulty.

In my situation I would much rather have discovered that my breakdown cover had expired than to be faced, after preparing for many years, with being refused a mortgage to provide a home for my family.

My case is further complicated by the fact that I am sure I gave alternative payment instructions and different card details to the AA. They did hold these details as the following year when they unsuccessfully claimed payment from the now defunct defaulted account they used a different card. I would never have provided details of two accounts and allowed them to take their pick! These changes and instructions are all given by telephone adding to the frustration of clarifying events.

I would be a strong advocate for "opt in" for memberships/payments rather than the "opt out" system currently operated by many institutions.

I am unable to fully describe the amount of stress, disruption and disappointment that this single event has caused us. I will never allow payment for goods or services to be made in this way again.

The matter is currently being investigated by the AA and I am anxiously awaiting a response.

The_AA_Company_Representative

They_make_all_the_rules wrote: »

I have been caught out by the AA and a CPA! I had no idea what a CPA was, it was never explained or detailed to me.
I missed making the payment to the card issuer and now have a default on my otherwise perfect credit history. This is preventing me from securing a mortgage for my first home.
It is my fault as it was on a card that was otherwise dormant. I had to move home and failed to update my contact details. The card details given for payment had long since expired and no longer matched any card that I held. I have been informed that this is irrelevant. The details given are linked to an account and not a card so will be continuously updated by the card issuer. Being unaware of the situation the account ran into default and I now have all the serious long term financial consequences that are associated with that.
I accept that this is my own fault and have been taught a very severe financial lesson which is now causing me extreme difficulty.

In my situation I would much rather have discovered that my breakdown cover had expired than to be faced, after preparing for many years, with being refused a mortgage to provide a home for my family.

My case is further complicated by the fact that I am sure I gave alternative payment instructions and different card details to the AA. They did hold these details as the following year when they unsuccessfully claimed payment from the now defunct defaulted account they used a different card. I would never have provided details of two accounts and allowed them to take their pick! These changes and instructions are all given by telephone adding to the frustration of clarifying events.

I would be a strong advocate for "opt in" for memberships/payments rather than the "opt out" system currently operated by many institutions.

I am unable to fully describe the amount of stress, disruption and disappointment that this single event has caused us. I will never allow payment for goods or services to be made in this way again.

The matter is currently being investigated by the AA and I am anxiously awaiting a response.

Hello, we appreciate you have already spoken to someone from The AA regarding this, however if there is anything outstanding which you would like to discuss, please email into chat@theaa.com with Reference number FOR35881. Thank you AA