Contactless Cards

gusgorman

dalesrider wrote: »

Well as you spend your money, then you are best placed to spot fraud..
As well as ALL banks have security systems in place.

Yes I am. The point is that its stupid to add a vulnerability to my card if I'm not going to use the new feature. I don't see why I should take on the responsibility for something I don't want.

dalesrider wrote: »

Public opinion is people want contactless cards.

The majority of my friends and people I work with don't want them at all.

dalesrider wrote: »

Gusgorman.
Are you aware that the biggest weakness in ALL card payments is the retailers that take the payments.
They take anyone off the street and allow them access to card details. With NO security checks.
To work in a bank, you have to be fully security screened.
Yet anyone can be pulled off the streets and have access to card details in a retailer....
Perhaps you need to turn your attention. To the real problem area :mad:

Yes - there are existing security vulnerabilities, some bigger, some smaller, I accept that. The point is that it is stupid to add extra vulnerabilities to my card if I'm not going to use the new features.

And - if the biggest weakness is the retailers then its pretty stupid to add a feature that makes it even easier for them to commit fraud.

gusgorman

stclair wrote: »

Just opt out and be done with it.
.

Some banks are forcing their customers to have contactless cards. There is no opt out option.

pmduk

Nobody forces a customer to stay with a bank that gives them facilities they don't want.

Jack_Griffin

pmduk wrote: »

Nobody forces a customer to stay with a bank that gives them facilities they don't want.

Are you thick, all banks will adopt this and force it on everyone eventually.. like it or not. The changes are being led by mastercard & visa, who want to replace cash with their system. Why is that good or acceptable?

Hooloovoo

FireWyrm wrote: »

As I said and no one seems to understand...

It's you that doesn't understand.

Individually, each person loses £20 or £80 depending on your individual card limits. Collectively, a scanner mingles in a busy high street on a Saturday morning and swipes HUNDREDS of £20's....do you get it yet?

So they've got this "scanner" and when they "scan" someone to take £20 from them, a £20 note pops out of the scanner does it?

No. Of course not. The criminal would require a merchant account, just like a shop requires. When all the £20s are transferred to the merchants account, and they are all reported as fraudulent, just how long do you think that account will stay active? Not to mention they would have to somehow launder that money from the merchant account into a personal account to make it untraceable.

Also you misunderstand how this "scanner" could possibly work. You are correct that passive RFID can be made to work at distances of several metres. The RFID chip gets its power by inducing a current from the radio signal, and uses that power to send its own pre-programmed identification data. The communication is purely one-way.

But contactless cards are not passive RFID. They are not the same as an Oyster card or a pet ID tag, for example. It's a different type of RFID that requires the card to be actively powered while two-way communication takes place. This is done by inducing a current using magnetic coupling, which the laws of physics prove can only occur over very very short range.

It's simply not possible to build the "scanner" of which you speak. And even if it were possible, it would be impossible to steal any money using a completely untraceable method.

stclair

gusgorman wrote: »

Some banks are forcing their customers to have contactless cards. There is no opt out option.

Which ones are these could you elaborate?

gusgorman

stclair wrote: »

Which ones are these could you elaborate?

To be honest Co-operative bank is the only one I know for sure. When customers debit cards expire they are sending them a contactless one as a replacement with no opt out option.

stclair

gusgorman wrote: »

To be honest Co-operative bank is the only one I know for sure. When customers debit cards expire they are sending them a contactless one as a replacement with no opt out option.

How do you know their is no opt out option?

gusgorman

stclair wrote: »

How do you know their is no opt out option?

Because I bank with them, I asked them, and they told me.

DevilsAdvocate1

BugsyBrowne wrote: »

You're completely 110% overreacting on something so silly IMHO.

Right say someone now steel £80 off you from Contactless payments out of your account(100% unlikely) the bank will just reinburse you so I don't think you get it.

Move on & stop worrying.

I think this is a touch naive. I remember when cash point cards were first introduced. My BIL had several withdrawals against his card which he reported to the bank as he had not done them. The bank refused to accept that this had happened. He could prove that he was not even in the town centre when some of the withdrawals took place as it was at work, 20 miles away. The bank's answer to this was that he must have given his card and pin to a friend.

A few months later, two transactions too place within 5 minutes of each other but in locations 20 miles apart. At this point, the bank accepted that there was a problem and he was finally refunded the money.

You may think that the bank will just refund you, just like that. But the onus will be on you to prove that you did not spend the money. Its very difficult to prove that you haven't done something.