Gross misconduct? Being dismissed? HELP!

Chantelle_91

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

I have to say that I am surprised that the union rep is advising you to resign, as the usual advice to someone with an otherwise unblemished record would be to attend the hearing, explain that what happened, apologise for your conduct, show remorse, and hope that you would be given a final written warning (along the lines of what WestonDave said in his post above).

Which leads me to think that what you are alleged to have said in the conversation is very serious indeed, in the context of a school employment?

Your union rep should have explained the procedure to you, but just in case...

The person conducting the hearing does not have to prove that you did in fact say what you are alleged to have said.

What s/he does have to do is to conduct a thorough investigation - which includes taking statement from other people involved, meeting with you to hear your version of events, and making any follow up enquiries. S/he then must come to a reasonable conclusion based on the facts revealed by that investigation, which s/he honestly believes to be true.

As someone else has said, this is a long way from proving beyond reasonable doubt that you did in fact say what you are alleged to have said.

As regards what your headmistress has said - if she really has said that you are guilty of gross misconduct and bringing the school into disrepute, that is a serious breach of procedure, as this suggests that a decision has already been made before they have even had the disciplinary meeting. However I suspect that is not quite what has been said, but how you have interpreted the letter informing you that you are required to attend a disciplinary meeting?

If that is the case, then you should understand that because the conduct complained of is capable of amounting to gross misconduct, the letter must warn you that your job is at risk. This does not mean that it has already been decided that you did what is alleged, or that it has already been decided that the appropriate sanction is dismissal. What it means is that these things are being considered.

As I say, I am surprised that you are being advised to resign, but this may be that the union rep has access to information that you either haven't told us, or don't know yourself (which should not be the case).

But if your best defence is effectively 'they can't prove I said it'.... that is not going to take you very far, because they don't have to prove it.

Thank you this has helped me a LOT!!

It has been alleged that I spoke about students outside of the work place. However, as I have stated previously, all of their statements are very contradicting. Although they are all generally saying that I said the same thing they are saying I said it A. at different times during the evening B. with different people present and C. in different ways. Also a lot of their statements are : "I was TOLD by my colleague that this is what she said" etc... So I don't understand how those statements can be taken as evidence against me. Also some have said that they had a conversation with me during the night when I had categorically never spoke to them. It seems that the two that I had actually spoken to that night have filtered their version of events to their colleagues and they have all made statements against me based on hear say.

I hadn't even seen or spoken to my union rep until the day of my investigation meeting. So she couldn't have had any access to information which I had not provided her with.

My headmistress has said that I "have brought the school into disrepute". Is that a fair comment for her to be making?

Hope this helps. Thanks

flutterby_lil

fishpond wrote: »

I would of thought
a) If you resign, you may still get a job at another school.
b) If you take the gamble on the hearing and you are sacked for gross misconduct, snowball in hell chance.

Hope this helps.

Pet hate of mine...I would 'have' thought....not would of thought!

However I agree with what you say.

RichardD1970

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dandelionclock30

Not as hard as all those teachers who start sexual relationships with children, hit them and run off with the school fund.
In the grand scheme of things its not brilliant but nothing compared to what some teachers get upto.
Bullying within teaching profession is absolutley rife and many teachers leave under a CA, the O.P may be best off out of it anyway.

RichardD1970

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dandelionclock30

Yeah I know but nobody is perfect and most people have done stupid things at one time for one reason or another.Alcohol is a disinhibitor, hence the amounts of fights/arguments/ one night stands etc after drinking. Her judgement will have been impared.

RichardD1970

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dandelionclock30

She said she had a drink, even 1 drink can affect judgement as all those programmes about drink driving have illustrated.
O.P are you liked at this school?
If they dont like you then they will use it to try to get rid of you. If they end up giving you a final written warning then thats no walk in the park either as the slightest little thing afterwards then they can dismiss you with no comeback.
Resigning will not get you off the hook because the school will have to disclose why you left because its working with children and its highly vetted because of all the scandles like Ian Huntley etc.

zzzLazyDaisy

Chantelle_91 wrote: »

Thank you this has helped me a LOT!!

It has been alleged that I spoke about students outside of the work place. However, as I have stated previously, all of their statements are very contradicting. Although they are all generally saying that I said the same thing they are saying I said it A. at different times during the evening B. with different people present and C. in different ways. Also a lot of their statements are : "I was TOLD by my colleague that this is what she said" etc... So I don't understand how those statements can be taken as evidence against me. Also some have said that they had a conversation with me during the night when I had categorically never spoke to them. It seems that the two that I had actually spoken to that night have filtered their version of events to their colleagues and they have all made statements against me based on hear say.

These are points that you need to raise at a disciplinary hearing, if you decide not to take the advice of your union rep to resign. Ultimately it is your word against theirs and the person conducting the disciplinary must decide who to believe. One thing they will probably take into account is the substance of what you are alleged to have said. So, for example "she was talking about students" is a general comment. But "she said that Jane Doe, the girl with red hair whose parents own the corner shop on Smith Street, cheated in her maths test on Friday" is much more explicit and contains information that can be verified and which the people from the other school could not have known. If the statements disclose verifiable confidential information about a student that you would probably know and they are unlikely to know, rather than a more general comment about you 'talking about students', then it doesn't really matter how many you can discount as being hearsay - since you accept that you did speak to two of them that night, if their statements are sufficiently detailed / believable you are probably still likely to be dismissed because breach of confidentiality is such a serious matter.

I hadn't even seen or spoken to my union rep until the day of my investigation meeting. So she couldn't have had any access to information which I had not provided her with.

But presumably she has seen the statements so is able to form a view on their content and how damaging they are likely to be.

My headmistress has said that I "have brought the school into disrepute". Is that a fair comment for her to be making?

It really depends on the context. If the Headmistress is the person who will be conducting the hearing, then no it is not, because it suggests that she has already made up her mind. But if she is not involved in the hearing, then she probably should not have expressed the opinion, but it doesn't impact on the fairness or otherwise of any decision that might subsequently be made.

Hope this helps. Thanks

Just one other thing....

If the union rep is another employee in an unpaid union role, you might want to ask for a Regional Officer to get involved since your job is at risk, and probably your future career in schools. They are paid officials with a lot more training and experience and who also normally work very closely with the union's legal department (no disrespect to 'shop floor' reps, who often do a great job, despite the fact that it may make them unpopular with the employer).

Dx

rochja

30 posts in and I still have no idea how the evening in question developed. You are going to need to make a better presentation than that if you go to a hearing. Were you indiscreet with personal information? Can your accusers demonstrate it by possession of knowledge they are not entitled to? Did the incident happen anywhere near the locality of the school? Is it the first of its kind? Did the police attend at any time that evening? Can the bar staff or CCTV support any defense you put forward?