Money Transfers - NO REPROACH?

rb10

innovate wrote: »

I still don't understand why they need check digits and modulus checking and complex sounding things, when uncle Tom Cobbly can get a sort code/bank account number verified, based on data that has been made available by the banks. Why don't they just check whether the combination of numbers exists, yes/no?
http://www.postcodeanywhere.co.uk/bank-account-validation/

Of course, this would not prohibit customers from sending a payment to the wrong set of numbers. Just like we aren't prohibited / protected from dialling a wrong phone number.

That site will (most likely) just check that the check digit formula adds up, to ensure that it's valid.

This is a significantly less system-intensive process (as it's just addition and subtraction) than comparing the number entered with every single bank account number that exists, or could exist.

Hominu

innovate wrote: »

I still don't understand why they need check digits and modulus checking and complex sounding things

I assumed all the checking stuff was for the bank to check what you typed in before they attempted to send the payment.

innovate wrote: »

Of course nobody is, but you can reasonably be expected to assume responsibility for your own mistakes.

Indeed, after you have had the opportunity to check the number twice, once when you entered it and then again when they ask you to confirm. Heck, I do that for the £1 test payment, and then also make sure it gets there before sending any other funds.

Most banks will try and shield you from entering numbers for common things like paying bills. You enter the name instead. Of course, you could type that wrong as well.

innovate

Bille wrote: »

In Germany we have something whereby if you find an error with a payment within a certain window, your bank can recall it for you, which makes sense.

You should add that once the payment has been credited to the recipient, there is no "something" that allows the bank to recall the payment, not even in Germany.

From what I understand, the available options are exactly the same in the UK as they are in Germany (and probably the rest of the EU, all legislated by the same EU Payment Services Directive). If you use Faster Payment, there's no stopping once the payment is gone. But any bank can stop a payment if it hasn't yet reached the recipient.

http://srbg.de/geld-auf-das-falsche-konto-ueberwiesen-was-tun.html

Bille

Thanks for the link, Innovate.

That article confirms, that in Germany there is this window, whereby a recall is possible, which is between 1 and 7 days

innovate

Bille wrote: »

Thanks for the link, Innovate.

That article confirms, that in Germany there is this window, whereby a recall is possible, which is between 1 and 7 days

I am sorry, but you are missing the point.

If you make a payment by the german equivalent of Faster Payment, you have no comeback. Because the money will have arrived in, potentially, seconds or minutes in the recipient's bank account. The article spells out explicitly that your bank can do nothing for you when this is the case.

If you use a cheque, you can stop the payment in the UK just as you can stop its closest german equivalent, a paper "Überweisung".

Skimming through your previous posts, it appears you fell victim to an eBay scam by hastily making a bank transfer to a fraudster. Terribly expensive lesson to learn in your case, but I am afraid, it all comes back to what has already been mentioned - taking responsibility for your own actions.

Your first mistake was not to know that you have no comeback if you use Faster Payment. Your second mistake was to pay the money via Faster Payment unconditionally to a complete stranger, in an environment that is known to be frequented by fraudsters. Your third mistake was to expect the bank to stop your payment which, with almost certainty, had reached the recipients bank account.

You did the right thing by reporting it to the police, who may or may not be able to find the culprits. But I wouldn't hold me breath if I were you for ever seeing a penny of your money again.

Biggles

rb10 wrote: »

This is incorrect - bank account numbers use a 'check digit' (Google it), which means that changing one digit of a bank account number results in the payment bouncing back to your account.

That only checks to see whether the account number and sort code are a valid combination.

If your luck is in - they are an invalid combination and your payment will be rejected by the system. If you aren't lucky, and have keyed in a valid sort code/account number combination - the money will end up in the wrong account.

I have no idea what the odds are and don't intend to try and find out!

innovate

Biggles wrote: »

If you aren't lucky, and have keyed in a valid sort code/account number combination - the money will end up in the wrong account.

How would the bank know that you didn't mean to type those valid numbers?

mulronie

In the last month I received payments electronically (FPS/Bacs) from:

• My employer
• My sister
• The tenants in a property I let
• Quidco
• My stockbroker
• Dividend payment from one of my holdings

I would rather none of them have the option to recall such monies on a whim, without my consent. I don't want to have to sit tight for 7 seconds, let alone 7 days, before spending my own money without worrying if it might be recalled.

techspec

There is an easy way to do this.

Double check the numbers before pressing confirm

rb10

Biggles wrote: »

That only checks to see whether the account number and sort code are a valid combination.

If your luck is in - they are an invalid combination and your payment will be rejected by the system. If you aren't lucky, and have keyed in a valid sort code/account number combination - the money will end up in the wrong account.

I have no idea what the odds are and don't intend to try and find out!

The odds of making an error that gives a real account are very slim indeed.

The two most common errors in entering account numbers are single digit errors (mis-keying a single digit in the account number) and transposition errors (getting a pair of numbers the wrong way around).

The check digit systems used on bank account numbers fully protects the user against a single digit error.

You are also almost fully protected against transposition errors. From memory, it's just the transposition of 0's and 9's that can, in a small number of cases, be an acceptable account number.

Mathematically, it's very clever, and means the chances of accidentally entering an accepted account number are very slim.

If the number you've entered fails the check digit formula, then your bank won't even send it - it will throw up an error at this stage.

And then, even if you've managed to stumble across a number that is accepted by the check digit formula, it doesn't mean an account actually currently exists with that number. In this case the payment will often be sent, but will bounce back to your account in a day or two.

It's a very strong system that makes it very difficult to transfer the money to the wrong person. You are significantly more likely to lose money by leaving your wallet in your pocket when your jeans go through the wash.