"I feel like a stranger where I live" - article in The Daily Telegraph

drc

Tiglath wrote: »

Those videos were made by a couple of nobheads. The East London Mosque was swift in its condemnation of their actions:

"Individuals claiming to be self-styled 'Muslim patrols' have been harassing members of the public on the streets of east London late at night, including outside our mosque after it has closed.

"These actions are utterly unacceptable and clearly designed to stoke tensions and sow discord. We wholly condemn them.

"The actions of this tiny minority have no place in our faith nor on our streets."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21142148

Ah yes, the East London Mosque. A paragon of liberalism, tolerance etc. Or not;

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100200020/east-london-mosque-condemns-homophobia-yet-advertised-four-anti-gay-speakers-last-month-alone/

To quote article;

And as this blog has repeatedly documented, the mosque itself and its annexe, the London Muslim Centre, host a constant stream of viciously homophobic and other hate preachers. In June 2011, after coming under particular pressure on the subject, the mosque promised: “Any speaker who is believed to have said something homophobic will not be allowed to use our premises.”

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100122775/east-london-mosque-hosts-speaker-who-has-called-for-jewish-women-to-be-enslaved-and-pillaged/

From article;

Last Friday, according to publicity material (above) and its Facebook page, the mosque was due to host that conspicuous moderate, Sheikh Saad al-Beraik, who has reportedly stated: “Muslim brothers in Palestine, do not have any mercy neither compassion on the Jews, their blood, their money, their flesh. Their women are yours to take, legitimately. God made them yours. Why don't you enslave their women? Why don't you wage jihad? Why don't you pillage them?”

The Mosque is speaking with a forked tongue when it condems homophobia and intolerance.

GeorgeHowell

Linton wrote: »

There are plenty of white British people with whom I share little cultural background, history (whatever that means), and values. I have met many from other ethnic backgrounds with whom I share much more.

Would you feel more "at home" with an ignorant, bigotted, white person with a history and attitudes that go back to the Stone Age or an educated intelligent East African Sikh say?

The answer is obvious for me, perhaps for you its different.

You are the exception that proves the rule then. The majority of people -- of all ethnic backgrounds -- see it more like me.

ruggedtoast

Masomnia wrote: »

Yep, it's not representative of the community as a whole I'm sure. But it does go on, I think it is the point. The police do seem to have dealt with them though.

The police on the whole dont get involved. If an immam calls the police and complains about radical muslims recruiting people outside his mosque it is dismissed as a community problem.

If a white person calls the police and complains about muslim radicals recruiting people outside the local mosque they are dismissed as a racist.

chem1st

I feel like a foreigner in my own country. I sometimes forget I am in the UK.

Everywhere I look there is English people speaking English, English cafes, English pubs, English businesses.

It feels like I am in Spain. If it weren't for the rain I would forget I lived in Barnsley!

ruggedtoast

I think the problem with multi culturalism boils down to one issue.

There is a priori assumption on the left that 'indigenous' Britons have a problem with foreigners because they are unable to tolerate diversity.

The point they seem to have missed is that the likelihood of you tolerating diversity is dependent on your level of education (and to some respect class) rather than your race.

What they have done is import, apparently millions, of unskilled poorly educated people from South Asia, Eastern Europe and Africa who are in outlook no more likely to be open minded about difference than the white working class communities they have displaced.

toby3000

It's curious that this is only discussed in relation to race. In Newcastle (and no doubt every other university towns) there are whole areas where no families live because they've been 'taken over' by students.

Most English people have no interest in making conversation about the price of parsnips, be they black, white or purple. That's what happens when you live in a city, learn to love it!

Moby

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

The left thinks that resistance to mass immigration is all about race and colour. But it isn't, it's mostly about culture. We are a tribal animal and feel most comfortable among our own kind. You can't change thousands of years of evolution overnight.

......and what are our 'own kind' exactly?

Moby

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

In answer to various points made, the reference to tribal instincts and the comfort zone of our own kind clearly applies to all races and nationalities to varying degrees. This is the reason that we have large, semi-closed communities of ethnic groups and nationalities other than ethnic white British. They understandably feel the same way, it's in our DNA.

"Our own kind" means people sharing similar cultural background, shared history and values as ourselves. I believe this also applies to all ethnic groups and nationalities.

The nazis used to talk like this!

N1AK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

One wonders what would happen if gangs of ethnic white British young males went out taunting Muslim women and girls about their dress code and suggesting that they "get 'em off" there and then ? Six Black Marias and the riot squad arriving within minutes perhaps ?

The problem here is again of perspective. Has anyone actually done any proper research into whether crimes against minorities are treated more seriously than crimes by minorities? I haven't seen it, all I see is a bunch of slightly disgusting newspapers pandering to the intolerance of their target readership by highlighting examples that reinforce the prejudice.

Search google for 'gangs attacking muslims' and the entire front page is stories about muslim gangs attacking non-muslims BUT the crime statistics show that Muslims are far more likely to be the victims of violent attacks than the perpetrators. The picture painted by the newspapers is entirely false and misleading; by my rough calculation there should be 3 stories about muslims being the victims of crimes for each story where they commit one to be representative of real UK crime. The fact that newspapers would rather paint victims as offenders and the readership would rather see Muslims as attackers than victims is a pretty disturbing sign of our intolerance and racism as a nation.

GeorgeHowell

N1AK wrote: »

The problem here is again of perspective. Has anyone actually done any proper research into whether crimes against minorities are treated more seriously than crimes by minorities? I haven't seen it, all I see is a bunch of slightly disgusting newspapers pandering to the intolerance of their target readership by highlighting examples that reinforce the prejudice.

Search google for 'gangs attacking muslims' and the entire front page is stories about muslim gangs attacking non-muslims BUT the crime statistics show that Muslims are far more likely to be the victims of violent attacks than the perpetrators. The picture painted by the newspapers is entirely false and misleading; by my rough calculation there should be 3 stories about muslims being the victims of crimes for each story where they commit one to be representative of real UK crime. The fact that newspapers would rather paint victims as offenders and the readership would rather see Muslims as attackers than victims is a pretty disturbing sign of our intolerance and racism as a nation.

There's a lot of truth in all of that. However we live increasingly in a world that is all about perceptions, whether is be the press, the broadcast media, or a load of ignoramuses on Twitter that are influencing opinion. People are essentially tribal in nature, that's one of the factors in our becoming the dominant species on the planet. Some are willing and able to leave it behind and live in a civilised fashion more than others. But you can't socially engineer it out of everyone overnight. Ideologies like political correctness, multiculturalism, and positive discrimination do far more harm than good and tend to alienate and harden attitudes rather than influencing them in the desired direction. And yes the media and others do sometimes stir it up for political and other reasons. The only way to achieve racial and cultural harmony is by softly-softly-catchy-monkey and with patience. This involves a much less aggressive policy on immigration, encouragement of communities to integrate, and encouragement of immigrants to accept what they find in their new country rather than fighting against it. As soon as one group is perceived as an oppressor and another as a victim those hopes are sunk.