Buying a house with tenant on Periodic Tenancy?

Werdnal

There are 1000's of "periodic tenants" in the country. It just refers to a tenant who is outside their Fixed Term agreement and residing at the property under a periodic tenancy. Once the fixed term ends, the tenants automatically gain a Statutory Periodic Tenancy. I have had 4 tenants in 13 years of letting, and every one has been a "periodic tenant" after their initial 6 month FT ended.

There may be some other tenuous links with the scenario you have been through and that Mike3 is experiencing now, but if the only reason for you're stumbling across this is a search on the term "periodic" then you are possibly way off the mark.

Call me cynical if you like, but its such a long-shot, I find it very, very hard to believe that this is one in the same tenant, tenancy and house purchase.

I'll leave it to you and Mike to investigate further ...

franklee

No idea who is scamming who in this thread but metropolitanlandlord's tenant started out as a "she' and is now allegedly a man in his 60s called Albert. What's more Mike3 didn't notice the sex change. What an odd lot LOL.

metropolitanlandlord wrote: »

The plan seems to have been that once I had bought the place she and her son would find all sorts of ways of screwing money out of me. I am quite stubborn and reasonably perceptive so it was not long before I realised - but by then I had been conned out of a few thousand and owned an unmanageable house. The next maneouvre would have been to tell me (as she did) that this house was not worth much with them in it and so I might like to buy her out. Luckily I had no money, because I have been advised that had I given her money (a very large sum) she would legally have been in a position to move out for a week and then decide to move back in and at the same time keep the money.

Mike3 wrote: »

Metropolitanlandlord ... I'm not going beat around the bush as you have as the coincidence is too unbelievable the tennants name is Albert s? (surname not revieled for dpa) A man his 60s, is that the same one? There is a son mentioned when I went round but only his stuff in the bedroom and no sight of him. Plenty of cats though! Anyway not sure I'm being scammed but never heard of this scam so I appreciate the heads up!

Anyway thanks for wasting our time guys!

G_M

Yeah - there's some trolling going on.
'She' becomes 'he' and Metro becomes spcustomer and ....

metropolitanlandlord

That was perceptive. Actually I think I started out with saying she but in due course added that her son has moved in with her. Her son (if he is the same person) is who Mike3 says he has been dealing with. The problem for me is to understand what kind of scam I could be operating. What would it be? Or indeed what scam could Mike3 be operating?

He didn't state a name in his primary correspondence. I hazarded an anagram of my tenant's name (which is an extremely rare one in Britain) and he came up with Albert s. This is the name with one letter missing of my tenant (and her son). Looking back through the correspondence you will find the anagram I gave was BLARTIES - which, if you look at what he has suggested will tell you which letter goes in the gap! (It is not the name Alberts as suggested). The name arrived at by filling that gap correctly is that of my tenant.

metropolitanlandlord

Werdnal - I am grateful to have found out that little bit about periodic tenancies. Does it mean that once their fixed term ends they are tenants for the period that their rent payment covers? That is, if someone is paying fortnightly (as in my tenant) and described as a periodic tenant are they permanently fixed or on a tenancy which allows two weeks' notice to quit?

jamie11

G_M wrote: »

I would be very wary.

* It certainly sounds like sale/rent back - not an area I'm familiar with but you need to research it before you commit

* don't take the word of the tenant on anything: rent, tenancy, arrears,.....

* With an auction, I'm not sure how you confirm/validate the terms of the tenancy - but my own instinct would be to question everything and take nothing on trust

* if it IS a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, you are right - 2 Tenancy Periods Notice (not 2 months).

* if the place is a tip - you will be responsible for ensuring it complies with legislation eg 'habitable'; working heating, hot water etc

* if repairs are needed, and required by the tenancy, you will be responsible.

* if arrears are greater than 2 months, you could use a S8

You mentioned at one point the tenant had been there for 35 years. If that is true then he will be a regulated tenant and any plans you have to get rid of him are pointless.

Have a look online at your local rent register, all you will need to do is enter the address to see if there is a 'fair' rent registered. If there is then it's regulated and impossible to get rid of them (virtually).

Mike3 wrote: »

From both of the replies can I assume that the worst case scenario is that I wont get the house back in my possession until the current tenant passes away or chooses of his own free will to move out? If thats the case Im happy with that, I dont want to move the old bloke on anyway, I wouldnt want anyone to do that to a relation of mine. Hopefully he cannot pass the tenancy onto any family member otherwise I may never get the house back!** Its habitable but any mess is his, e.g. cat mess, cat food and lots of cigarette smoke. The kitchen and bathroom are useable. No heating except a gas fire which hes happy with. Hes an old guy I dont think he is deceiving me, he just doesnt know whats going on with his house an understandably worried.
From your replies I can also 'evict' him if he falls behind on rent?
Thanks
Mike

**If he has someone living with him for the 2 years previous to him dying then the tenancy can indeed be passed on.


Also, you are being naive if you believe that a small gas fire is sufficient heating these days. All it would take is one call to the council by him, or by someone acting on his behalf to cause you untold expense. He wont be blamed for the miserable condition he lives in......you will.

Bargepole .........lo o o o o ng comes to mind.

metropolitanlandlord

Jamie11 that seems about right except that he is not the original tenant. His mother is, and he can succeed her but nobody (under present law) can succeed him. She is very old (or may have died) and he is trying to create a situation where his son succeeds him

Interestingly my tenant only has one gas fire because she refused to have either central heating or secondary glazing installed - I think she was afraid of the rent going up as a result.

And finally, I think I have the answer to how I came up with the exact name of the tenant concerned: I contacted an 'investment company' called Swift Capital through their website and asked for a ballpark figure if I agreed a sale and I rather think Mik3 is that investment company. That does not mean we cannot do business, but it does suggest that there may be some double-dealing going on.

G_M

metropolitanlandlord wrote: »

Werdnal - I am grateful to have found out that little bit about periodic tenancies. Does it mean that once their fixed term ends they are tenants for the period that their rent payment covers? That is, if someone is paying fortnightly (as in my tenant) and described as a periodic tenant are they permanently fixed or on a tenancy which allows two weeks' notice to quit?

Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)

Not: the above refers to ASTs. If the tenant has a Regulated Tenancy it does not apply.

kanute50

There is something very strange about the posters who are supposed to have links to the same property and tenant, although the tenant has changed sex from post to post. My thanks however goes to "franklee" for the very useful link concerning the case of scrouther v watermill properties.

Werdnal

metropolitanlandlord wrote: »

Werdnal - I am grateful to have found out that little bit about periodic tenancies. Does it mean that once their fixed term ends they are tenants for the period that their rent payment covers? That is, if someone is paying fortnightly (as in my tenant) and described as a periodic tenant are they permanently fixed or on a tenancy which allows two weeks' notice to quit?

No. You claim to be (or have been) a landlord, but obviously know very little about the laws surrounding letting property.

The periodic tenancy continues with exactly the same terms and conditions as the original fixed term agreement EXCEPT, the tenant only need give 1 month written notice to leave, and the LL must give 2 months written notice if they wish to gain their property back. After this notice expires, if the tenant does not voluntarily leave (and they do not have to), the LL applies to court (another 4-6 weeks), and presuming all the notice paperwork was completed correctly, and the deposit the tenant paid (if any) was protected correctly, the court will grant a possession order for the LL to evict the tenant. LL may still need baillifs to actually achieve the eviction.

There is no other way for the landlord to legally and correctly evict their tenant or claim their property back. The periodic tenancy can continue forever, if the tenant and landlord are happy and no notice/possession claim, is given by either tenant or landlord.

Read the link posted by GM above which gives more information.