emergency crate training due to injury

bluetimone97

Sorry to hear about your dog's injury,my St Bernard Cross did the same thing 2 years ago, it was 9 months before he was allowed up the stairs or on furniture again! Progress is slow and there are sometimes setbacks, but hang in there.

We also had hydrotherapy sessions with him to strengthen it, 2 years on I can't remember which leg it is. Our vet also recommended Glucosamine tablets to aid in reducing the risk of arthritis, which is increased after injury.

Just wanted to let you know there is a light at the end of a very long tunnel!

universalady_2

I have a breed of a similar size that had had cruciate problems. tbh I'm quite surprised that your vet has said it will heal. If it has stretched, it 'may' get better with a HUGE amount of rest, and a steady recovery program to rebuild the ligament and muscle, usually including hydrotherapy, this however is much more likely with a small lighter weight breed.
If it has actually torn even slightly it will not heal, it will only get worse, to the point where it will rupture completely and will need surgery, this is usually in the form of a TPLO, TTA or similar. Once the cruciate ligament shows any signs of weakness, you need to be prepared for a surgical intervention. These operations are major and cost alot of money, easily £2k + per cruciate for a TPLO.
You also need to be aware that the meniscus cartiledge can start to fray when the ligament is torn, which can also cause further problems and discomfort.
Your vet may have prescibed some metacam or similar for pain relief, and it's quite possible that after a few days on it, it appears your dog is moving alot better which gives the impression it is healing, but please be aware when your dog is not feeling the discomfort, he will walk better on it, once you start to withdraw the pain relief the dog is still thinking he can walk/run/act as he was when he was on the medication, and very often this is when the ligament can actually rupture properly, so you need to monitor his activy closely
You can monitor your dogs weight, monitor the exercise, restrict free running, twisting etc, but IMO this is only delaying the inevitable outcome
Regarding the crate training and restriction, you could always buy a puppy pen - like the one here - and attach it to the sides of your large crate, so the space your dog has is more, but still restricted

any_name_will_suffice

thanks bluetimone97 and universalady for sharing your dogs' experiences. I am starting to think the vets suggestion that it should be healed sufficiently for him to return to normal activity within 3 weeks is a bit optimistic.

He only had two days of pain relief, so monday and tuesday so that should have worn off by now shouldn't it? He looks like he's a bit stiff more than anything now, and he's a bit restless, he set off on a mad dash around the kitchen last night, which I did stop straight away. He normally gets plenty of off lead exercise, and he tends to spend most of this sprinting around, so I think he's feeling the lack of it now!

The vet said that providing there's no sign of limping at all, I can start with restricted lead walks on monday, although If he still looks stiff I'm going to phone and discuss this with them. I also don't want to risk him slipping if it's icey.

Would you have expected the vet to have advised an xray? she said she didn't need to at this stage. She did say there was a tear, but it was a small one, and as I said earlier, i actually think it may have occured before Christmas, although I didn't realise becuase he didn't seem to have symptoms until last weekend.

He did sneak up the stairs earlier this morning, I thought my OH was watching him, he literally would have passed my OH at the bottom of the stairs. I was in the shower with the door open, and found him blinking at me from the doorvway. Not impressed, and I will remember not to rely on OH to supervise him in future!

I was wondering about supplements, as i read about the likelihood of arthritis in the future. Should I discuss this with the vet first, or would I be ok to start him on them? He doesn't have any other known health problems, apart from the vet thought he heard a heart murmer Nov 2011, but in the 5 or 6 times he's checked since he hasn't been able to detect it, so thinks it was an error.

bluetimone97

Xrays don't show, it is usually diagnosed by manipulation.

My boy had been showing a slight limp for a couple of days but we just thought he was a bit stiff in the cold weather, then he was running in the snow and slipped, creating the complete tear.

The vet did think he would need tplo, but as it was over Christmas we could not get a specialist appointment for weeks and by the time we saw the vet again after 1 week, he had shown a great improvement from the conventional management. We chose to continue with it as the chance of him needing a tplo on the other leg would have been huge due to it taking all the strain whilst healing, with our vet's approval.

He had weekly appointments for 3 months, then fortnightly for 3 months. As I say he was not allowed upstairs, and only had 5 minute lead walks. Was supervised in the garden and confined to whichever room we were in. He started Hydro twice a week after 3 months.

I did wonder many times if we were doing the right thing, especially when we had what I would call *whoops* moments, which included him going upstairs occasionally or jumping up on us when not completely supervised. His limp would return for a day or so and then go again.

It was a long slow process, but I am now 100% sure that we did the right thing for him and us and like I said, I cannot tell which leg it was, everyone's situation will be different.

I would check what your vet thinks about the Glucosamine.

universalady_2

An xray will not show up a tear, as bluetimone97 says, it is usually first diagnosed by manipulation, sometimes under a mild sedation, and usually confirmed by actually investigating the ligament, i.e sedating the dog and opening up the knee joint. This will also confirm whether or not the meniscus cartiledge needs removal/trimming or is in fact fine. The longer a torn crucaite ligament is left, the more chance there will be damage to the meniscus cartiledge too.
If I were in your position, I would be either asking for a second opinion from a different vet, or seeing a specialist. IF there is a weakness in the ligament, the chance of it actually rupturing completely is much higher.
The longer there are problems with cruciates, the more chance of arthiritis setting in is also greater. You can give your dog supplements, glucosamine etc, but it will not stop what is already there.

any_name_will_suffice

Hi,

I thought I would give an update on this.

Rocky's knee had been doing really well, the vet had checked it and it appeared sound, although he is starting to get some stiffening in his hips. We had started fun swim sessions at the local hydrotherapy pool, and had just started off lead exercise again.

However, two days ago he wandered off mid walk to eat some poo (and boy did we pay for that) and came back on three legs. He's still struggling to out any weight on it, and we saw the vet last night who's started him on metacam and talked about a referral for surgery.

We have two weeks annual leave from 23rd onwards, and had planned a camping expedition around the Hebrides. Needless to say, that idea has been shelved.

Anyone have any experience of how long surgery takes, from the point of referral through to the actual op? It would be ever so helpful (but the way my luck is going unlikely!) if it could happen at the start of my annual leave, so he could have my undivided attention for two weeks afterwards to give him some tlc during the initial post op stage.

(on another note, this was the third vet visit in three weeks, as he had had some sort of reaction to something and had problems with itchy skin which he had chewed into wet spots- we'd only just managed to keep the cone off his head when this happened! Poor boy is not having a good year)

universalady_2

any_name_will_suffice wrote: »

Hi,

I thought I would give an update on this.

Rocky's knee had been doing really well, the vet had checked it and it appeared sound, although he is starting to get some stiffening in his hips. We had started fun swim sessions at the local hydrotherapy pool, and had just started off lead exercise again.

However, two days ago he wandered off mid walk to eat some poo (and boy did we pay for that) and came back on three legs. He's still struggling to out any weight on it, and we saw the vet last night who's started him on metacam and talked about a referral for surgery.

We have two weeks annual leave from 23rd onwards, and had planned a camping expedition around the Hebrides. Needless to say, that idea has been shelved.

Anyone have any experience of how long surgery takes, from the point of referral through to the actual op? It would be ever so helpful (but the way my luck is going unlikely!) if it could happen at the start of my annual leave, so he could have my undivided attention for two weeks afterwards to give him some tlc during the initial post op stage.

(on another note, this was the third vet visit in three weeks, as he had had some sort of reaction to something and had problems with itchy skin which he had chewed into wet spots- we'd only just managed to keep the cone off his head when this happened! Poor boy is not having a good year)

Thanks for the update, depending on whether your veterinary practice carries out TPLO/TTA operations then it could be done within days. If you are being referred to a specialist practice, which I hope you are then a cruciate could be operated on within a few days to a week. You would probably find that you could delay the surgery slightly to co-incide with your annual leave BUT the dog would have to be confined and NOT allowed any free walks (even toilet trips in the garden!)

The operation can take a few hours, and usually kept in overnight for observation. It is a MAJOR operation, and I can't re-iterate how careful you will need to be when he comes home. My advice is to buy a puppy pen - http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/heavy-duty-puppy-pen so the dog is confined but has enough room to manoveur and doesn't feel quite as confined as he would in a cage

As for the wet spots, sounds like wet excema, can be stress related. I usually wash thoroughly with hibi-scrub, dry throughly and dust a bit on anti-bacterial powder on, and keep an eye on it, and repeat if it gets gunky again

you may find this useful http://www.lauriebryce.com/tplo/recovery.html

any_name_will_suffice

thanks universalady for the reply.

we're using his crate again to confine him at the moment, he is comfortable being crated, and it's certainly huge! The vet suggested we could confine him to a small room, but if I'm honest we don't really have a room suitable- maybe the kitchen when we're there but I wouldn't leave him alone for fear of him jumping up at the door handles (he knows doors will open if he is persistent) or climbing on the sofa. It also has hard flooring, so I can see me needing to get some off cuts of cheap carpet to put down while he heals.

I left it with the vet yesterday that we would see how he got on with the metacam, but after a conversation with OH last night, I rang them up this morning to request the referral be sent to the specialist. Apparently the vet is not back in until tomorrow, and the receptionist will ring back when she has spoken to her, with details of where he will be referred to. Although, the vet nurse couldn't guarantee the referral would actually be sent tomorrow, depending on how busy the vet is. So we might end up with the timing just right for my annual leave.
i have five busy days next week, and although my boss is extremely good about my going home at lunch times and working from home, I can't imagine her being sympathetic about me taking a full day off, or cancelling commitments. And there's no one to cover. If it comes to it, OH may have to step up ( ferrying the dog around has always been my job )

Insurance is not an issue, as we have none, and i am quite prepared for a huge bill, we are in the fortunate position being able to pay.

The wet spots came after what looked like a bad reaction to something, he had been rubbing his face, shaking his head, scratching and chewing himself. Fortunately the other symptoms calmed down, and after a dose of steroids (oral and topical) the wet spots have dried up. He just has patchy fur, as the vet shaved him so we could see how bad they were.

Thanks for the links, I still have huge reservations about using a pen to confine him in- I could just see him trying to climb out when he started to feel a little better.

I am so stressed, not just about this but some other issues too, and I feel sick every time I think about how much pain he must be in. Although I have to say, he seems quite cheerful and certainly hasn't lost his appetite!

any_name_will_suffice

Just to post an update, I will be dropping him off at the specialist on Wednesday next week, hopefully surgery will be done on Thursday, and collect him on friday all being well.

They did offer to have him in on monday, with a view to collecting him on wednesday, but if I'm honest, we just wouldn't be able to manage it work wise, or be with him on the thursday and friday all day, and
i'm loathe to leave him home alone straight away after such major surgery. I feel rotten, but it's only two extra days (probably will feel a lot longer to him!), but it means we can give him undivided attention and tlc afterwards.

So, I am starting to think about post op care. We have laminate flooring throughout, so I am looking for some old/ off cut carpets to stick over the floor so he can't slip. We have his crate, and I am tempted to buy him a new bed. I have been looking at memory foam ones, but they're sooooo expensive. Is a memory foam mattress just a piece of foam? Is so, do you think it would work to buy a single memory foam mattress, cut it in half to make two beds, and then make a cover from an old duvet cover?

any_name_will_suffice

I miss my hairy friend. I dropped him off at dog-hospital this morning, collect him on Friday with a repaired knee!