Used car market UK - complete joke

forgotmyname

Ripped off once = bad luck.

Ripped off 7 times in 2 years. Must say something.

But were you ripped off or just buying cars past their useful life?

But the lack of actual proper diagnostic work maybe the reason?
Do you just google common faults my car and assume thats the problem?

steve-L

There are many factors that all overlap, only some of them are anything to do with used car dealers.

1) Cars (washing machines, TV's .... ) are made to be disposable.
Partly there is legislation about how recyclable they are... and partly it is driving down the price of the cheaper cars at new and partly market forces.

Back in the 50's cars were a significant investment (even a Morris Minor) was a significant part of the price of a 3 bed house. (I recently watched a documentary that actually had some prices and what that meant at the time)....
Only the wealthy could afford ANY car....
Even the 'E' type was made by cutting corners on cost (such as rust proofing)

Now most people can afford some car.... or washing machine or vacuum cleaner... (back in the 30's the people that could afford a vacuum cleaner could also afford domestic help)

Somewhere in the democratisation of these consumer goods we went from a washing machine/vacuum cleaner being something you fixed to something you buy a new one when it breaks.
We still fix cars but the economics of what is fixable are/have changed (next point 2). Because cars are now semi-disposable (the new buyer will most likely change it in 2-3 years) there is little effort put into making them maintainable.... once this time is over.

This applies most to cars aimed at new private buyers.... the fleet market is usually better informed... hence Clio's, Polo's , Ka's etc. are not made to be maintained and kept... whereas a Laguna, Passat or Mondeo are....(or more so)

[Aside, I bought a Laserjet 4P in about 2000, it failed after about 1yr and a day (in other words just after warranty). My brother has
has own company and a laser CAM that can make a new gear... he took out the old soft plastic one (made to fail) and put in a aluminium one.... the printer is still working today.... the one gear that had gone was made of softer material, it was deliberately designed to wear so the printer had to be thrown away, but because its cheaper the rest of the gears and insides were the same as the industrial series laserjets .....
This gets even nastier... because HP has a secret set of codes that HP engineers have and when they come and service your printer they can secretly dial in a number of prints the printer will do before it fails and flashes up 'call engineer'. When the engineer arrives they just charge you £50 and press some secret button combination and dial in the next number of copies until you have to call them again and pay another £50. (I have actually seen the book)

How much of cars is made to deliberately fail is an interesting question.

2) Cost of labour
Cost of labour has spiralled. Even a small indy will charge upwards of £50/hr .. take a common item like a new clutch... it might only cost £150 or less but it might cost £600 in labour to change.

This combines with the cars not really being built to last.... and perhaps being built to deliberately fail.
A new bumper might cost £10 to make and £300 to sell. Its in their interest to make colour coded bumpers.... they get damaged and they make nearly £300 in profit... if they just did black ones that don't scratch so easy they don't.....

Even where panels are not plastic they are made much thinner than 'old fashioned' cars, especially the small cars....
they also add folds to doors/panels etc. so if it does get dented you can't pop it back out or get it panel beaten .. the folds also add rigidity allowing them to make even thinner metal on the doors....

The problem with the cost of labour is this simply drives many cars into being perfectly good but scrapped due to a minor part failing being to expensive to replace.

3) Reliance on electronics - (failed ECU)
Despite labour costs being relatively cheaper when I was young changing plugs, adjusting timing or fuel mixture was something any half competent person with a Haynes manual could do...
CHG's go and you could replace it yourself....

Now with all the electronics I can barely change my own oil filter!
Playing with the timing or mixture ... all done electronically... and pull the cyl head off impossible without disconnecting all the electronics.

Add in todays high labour costs and much self maintenance being denied and you go back to non economically repairable cars.

All this complex electronics is waiting to fail and relies on hundreds of sensors (all waiting to fail)... and incredibly expensive to replace. If I lost a key on my 1st car (Escort Mk2) I could get a new one cut... if I lose my current BMW one I need it reprogramming for the car....

4) Put all that together and as Paul said... most £1000 or less in a dealers is there for a reason.... the reason being the last owner didn't want to spend more money on it and PX'd it.

All of the above actually makes it really hard for a honest dealer to deal in sub £1000 cars and make a profit.... when you add in the legal aspects of it being fit for purpose they need to clear a decent amount (say £500 on each sale) or go under....

bodgerx

If you are going to buy cars at 10+ years old, make sure its Japanese. Specifically, Honda. Pre 03 Honda Accords are rock solid. Avoid French at this age. They don't mature as well as their wines.

As others have said...

Lower your expectations from dealers of cars of this age. There aren't many decent ones out there. Buy private instead and get an inspection.

If you did all of these things you wouldn't have half the trouble you have had.

fridgeracer

well im pretty much stuck with this citroen.

no ones gonna buy it from me privately and nor do i feel right selling it with the issues it currently has. even if i did, i`ll get backlash from them when they find any of the same problems with the injectors and probably not have a leg to stand on legally.

all i could do is px yet again, which obviously i cannot do - cant trust the dealers and cant trust whatever car they have is going to actually work. for example ive found a less than 2K honda civic 2000 1.4l. but i cant and wont buy it, because its from a dealer. even if i px mine and got 2K for it i would be paid 300 quid and take the honda, but i`ll probably end up with the same crap as i am in now.

that ones done only 84K miles. but as stated, if its only done 84K miles and its such a reliable and excellent quality car, why on earth is it there in the 1st place.

Bobster64

withabix wrote: »

You seem to have a penchant for buying old knackers.

What has this got to do with the 'UK used car market being a complete joke' ??

Ten year old cars aren't going to be 100% reliable.

Here here. Great response. My husband has worked in the motor trade for many years for main dealerships and he believes they offer amazing service.

Main dealers are franchises and not owned by the manufacturer however in order to keep the franchise they have to provide a certain level of customer service. Customers are always sent letters asking how they were treated and asked about any problems. Unhappy customers means the franchisee loses his franchise so believe me they ensure customers are taken care of.

Oh, you also have the sales of goods act. Maybe worth reading.

Final tip: stop buying c##p. you get what you pay for.

bodgerx

Bobster64 wrote: »

Here here. Great response. My husband has worked in the motor trade for many years for main dealerships and he believes they offer amazing service.

Main dealers are franchises and not owned by the manufacturer however in order to keep the franchise they have to provide a certain level of customer service. Customers are always sent letters asking how they were treated and asked about any problems. Unhappy customers means the franchisee loses his franchise so believe me they ensure customers are taken care of.

Oh, you also have the sales of goods act. Maybe worth reading.

Final tip: stop buying c##p. you get what you pay for.

Main dealers are not whiter than white. You are paying a premium for what you get. Servicing at main dealers is also very expensive. There are good ones and bad ones.

Personally, I'd either buy private or if you are buying a car less than 4 years old; a BCA/Manheim auction (that's what the dealers do).

TrickyWicky

fridgeracer wrote: »

well im pretty much stuck with this citroen.

no ones gonna buy it from me privately and nor do i feel right selling it with the issues it currently has. even if i did, i`ll get backlash from them when they find any of the same problems with the injectors and probably not have a leg to stand on legally.

That all depends. From what you've said, it's at least 10 years old and worth less than £1k right? So stick it on ebay with an honest description - there may be someone out there who will want it either for parts or to put their own parts into.

fridgeracer wrote: »

all i could do is px yet again, which obviously i cannot do - cant trust the dealers and cant trust whatever car they have is going to actually work. for example ive found a less than 2K honda civic 2000 1.4l. but i cant and wont buy it, because its from a dealer. even if i px mine and got 2K for it i would be paid 300 quid and take the honda, but i`ll probably end up with the same crap as i am in now.

that ones done only 84K miles. but as stated, if its only done 84K miles and its such a reliable and excellent quality car, why on earth is it there in the 1st place.

So don't use a dealer - AS I SAID ALREADY (and you seem to be ignoring). Look privately instead where prices will be lower, you get to meet the actual owner, look at the service receipts / history and get an idea of how well kept the car is. Honda is a solid make of car so if a civic floats your boat start scouring ebay.

I'm pretty sure I said most of this already but it's not sinking in is it? - You're mentioning this Civic at a dealer already within 24 hours of my previous advice telling you not to use a dealer again. Then you wonder why you have no luck? You're shooting yourself in the foot and ignoring real advice - that is why you're having problems.

Don't bother with a dealer again. Go and look at cars privately, meet the owner and check out the history. D oyour own HPI checks, check the VIN on the chassis (make sure its not a long paper sticker but actually engraved into the metal), weigh up the owner etc. Sure you might not get the nice friendly service or the supposed warranty but what you will get if you buy from the right person is a car that they maintained well because they relied on it for work, business, family etc.

Finally once more, don't go to a dealer again. Don't buy cheap eurotrash again (Renault, Citroen, Fiat etc). Get something proper like Mitsubishi, Toyota, Honda, Volvo etc. A reputable brand from a country where they still believe that cars should last for most of your life rather than start to run into the ground after 7 years. Thats the only way you'll find happiness with your next car.

[Deleted User]

My car will be 12 years old this year and is currently running sweet as a nut. Spent nearly £500 on repairs last year but I'm not expecting any of that stuff to be needing replaced for years to come. I only do about 500 miles a month currently.

TrickyWicky

Heh at 14 years I can beat that

Dukesy

withabix wrote: »

Ten year old cars aren't going to be 100% reliable.

I beg to differ on this - In 2009 I bought an R reg Honda Civic with around 70,000 on the clock. I think it was probably the most reliable car I have ever had and I absolutely hammered it for a few years, making regular 300 mile round trip commutes. It never let me down, and the only money I had to spend on it was getting the exhaust welded once and replacing a tyre after I hit a pothole on the M40 in the 2010 snow. Fantastic car, I still regret selling it sometimes.

Currently, aside from my classics, I have a 1992 Volvo and a 1989 Golf. They always get me from A-B, and really require very little care to keep them running well. It's a case of actually inspecting what you buy properly before committing.

The OP seems to have a real knack for buying dreadful cars - even saying he's spotted problems whilst buying them and then STILL handing over the money! Why would anyone go handing over money hoping for a reliable, trouble free vehicle when they can see warning lights are on etc at the time of purchase?