Used car market UK - complete joke

TrickyWicky

withabix wrote: »

Ten year old cars aren't going to be 100% reliable.

Sweeping generalisation there - keep up the good work

There are plenty oif reliable ten year old cars out there that are brilliant with no troubles at all. Heck there are even knackered reliable cars out there that are only 70% but keep going. I have a 70%'er myself and despite having its problems it still hasn't completely died. I just fitted a second hand dizzy to it last week to extend its lifespan a bit more

Seriously, there are still GOOD cars out there at that age. You just need to do your research.

Paperbird

So out of the 7 cars 2 were fine ( there is no way the dealer could know the ECU was going to pack up the next day ).
2 cars had warning lights on indicating a fault but you bought them anyway rather than ask for it to be fixed before you would buy them.
1 car had a blowing exhaust but you bought it anyway and didn't ask for it to be fixed first.
1 car had a large dent on the back and a broken mirror control ( should have made you think ? ) but because as it had taken you 2 hours to get there you thought you should buy it anyway.
1 car you thought had a problem with the heater but you bought it then checked up on the fault rather than saying " I'll come back tomorrow " and checking up on the fault first.

While ever there are people like you that will happily buy a car with obvious faults why would any car seller bother fixing any of the cars they have for sale before they have a buyer for them.

motorguy

fridgeracer wrote: »

so nearly... not a single dealer has been truly honest and reliable. this country for used cars is a joke to be honest. the 3 month warranty they must provide apparently only applies when you buy something over 1000 quid.

dealers DONT have to give you a 3 month warranty on ANY car, however they are obliged to warrant the condition of the car.

motorguy

fridgeracer wrote: »

that's why i would except any motor trader to do the right things:

-any car they receive they place a new MOT on it before advertising it for sale
-any car they want to sell must have already been given a full service
- any car they want to sell must have already been given an independent health check and diagnostics and all issues it may or may not have been fixed, if of course they dont want to advertise it with all these problems listed, otherwise they MUST list all issues and problems the car has so the buyer knows what to expect and what to expect to pay in time or money to fix if they really want to spend on that particular car

There are traders who will do this for you, however they will charge you £500 more, as thats probably the price you're looking at to do that - but no one is willing to pay extra.

The market is very price driven. Everyone wants the cheapest deal, but seem surprised when it doesnt come with a manufacturer spec warranty.

fridgeracer wrote: »

currently, a private seller will part exchange their car that has some issues or major problems to a motor trader and that trader will just take that car, not check anything, not give it an MOT or service unless the buyer demands one as part of the sale, and most certainly will not ever in their wildest dreams put the car in for an independant health check and diagnostics on any problems it may have for the buyer. that's because they simply dont want to know, and dont care - they want to sell it on and leave the buyer with the problems. if they can give it up with no warranty, they are effectively robbing you because they did not advertise any problems with the car, and are not obliged to fix because of no warranty. if they did give a warranty, and get everything fixed with a buddying garage - they can drag the time out as much as they want to since they get a cheap deal with that garage, and the longer it takes the less time you have on your warranty to stand on.

So why not arrange for an independent inspection? You seem to - 7 times in a row - totally believe there is nothing wrong with the car and take the dealers word for it.

fridgeracer wrote: »

the car is not the issue here, the issue is on how these dealers mis-sell and mislead people. it should also be 100% illegal for a private seller to part exchange a car with problems and not notify the dealer of those problems.

im sorry but it is not right that you MUST accept that spending money on a 10 yr old car cheaper than newer cars WILL land you with problems, crappy dealers, and bad service that is not governed by any laws to protect consumers. you should have the same rules and servicing, and trust with motor traders as you do with main dealer manufacturers, regardless on the car's price - the way they are meant to be sold should be a law.

You're buying cars in the twilight years of their life.

Theres a reason why main dealers dont stock cars over three years old - because they go wrong and it costs them money. If Renault dont have enough faith in their product to put more than a 3 year warranty on it, how can a trader do so for a 12 year old £800 car with 120,000 miles on the clock?

You're buying cars that are being sold for maybe 1/20th of their cost new and whose next stop is a scrapyard.

You need to either get out of that cycle or accept that things go wrong.

This buying a car, driving it for a few months, deciding you need to change is a recipe for disaster - every time you are buying a car that someone has traded in because its about to cost them a fortune, you're fixing them and then selling them for some reason or other is just madness.

My advice - buy a car at about £800 privately with a years MOT - say a Focus 1.6 petrol, service it regularly, and drive it until its fit for nothing but scrap. Then repeat.

motorguy

Paperbird wrote: »

While ever there are people like you that will happily buy a car with obvious faults why would any car seller bother fixing any of the cars they have for sale before they have a buyer for them.

Couldnt agree more.

forgotmyname

Why would you take a 10 year old car to a main dealer? You cannot expect a dealer to spend £700 on an ECU because the dealers thinks thats the issue. Especially when the car is worth less than that.

2009 i spent just over £2000 on a 2004 Mondeo diesel. Just over 3 years later its cost less than £1000 for services, repairs and upgrades in those 3 years.

maninthestreet

TBH, car ownership really isn't for you.....

fridgeracer

TrickyWicky wrote: »

You think it's the dealer. Did you ever stop to look at the type of cars you were buying? VW and Audi are actually reliable unless they've not been looked after. In this country its not so much the second hand market as it is people who don't spend maintenance money on their cars. People think German cars are indestructible and thus many won't bother spending on them - then you'll suffer later on in life.

The other brands you mention are just crap. It doesn't matter how much money people sink into those, they still get worse as they get older.

Seriously, if you want a solid car, go and find a solid brand. Stop messing about and get something proper like a toyota, volvo, lexus (dare I say this?) bmw, etc. Something that is well built.

The VW polo is a budget VW. Sure VW have a cult following but you get what you pay for - the Polo is a cheap car and will be made cheaply. Sure its one up from a ford Ka but ford engines and ECUs seem to be up there with Volvo - indestructible (trust me, we have both and neither have had an oil, plug or filter change since we've had them).

so you are saying that if i got the citroen sorted out properly, serviced it every year, drove it carefully and not trash it (which i never do with any car)... it will still on it's own just break and fall into pieces bit by bit and by the time ive covered 140K miles on it something such as the oil cooler spliting or the head gasket blowing up unexpectadly will likely happen - in other words nothing i do will make it last?

i did my research before buying it and checked many reviews and havent come across anyone whos said theyve had to scrap it or it's extremely unreliable. my guess is the idiot who had it before me did not get it properly serviced every year, only every 15K miles - which is probably why all these injectors have screwed up on it.

sorry but i am not a wealthy person, and cannot afford to simply go to a main dealer and pay top buck for a car just so i can have a piece of mind. i find it very wrong that if i buy something from even a reputable trader that says have been trading for 30+ years, provide rac warranties and HPI checks for free, at a much lower price than main dealers.... i MUST accept that i am effectively being ripped off. the law states as a consumer i am not allowed to be ripped off from anyone buying anything, including a car. yet it seems these motor traders do not give at all, and there is no one putting them in their place forcing them to check their cars and even refusing to take a part exchange without a vehicle inspection.

motorguy

fridgeracer wrote: »

sorry but i am not a wealthy person, and cannot afford to simply go to a main dealer and pay top buck for a car just so i can have a piece of mind. i find it very wrong that if i buy something from even a reputable trader that says have been trading for 30+ years, provide rac warranties and HPI checks for free, at a much lower price than main dealers.... i MUST accept that i am effectively being ripped off. the law states as a consumer i am not allowed to be ripped off from anyone buying anything, including a car. yet it seems these motor traders do not give at all, and there is no one putting them in their place forcing them to check their cars and even refusing to take a part exchange without a vehicle inspection.

Motor Traders are bound by law to provide you with certain rights when you buy a car, however noone can put a warranty on a 12 year car and guarantee that its going to be trouble free motoring.

It simply cant work like that.

I gave you good advice, which you seem to have chosen to ignore, so i will repeat it -

• seek out a privately owned car, with a years MOT and that has been family owned for several years - MAKE SURE IT HAS. Giveaways of a small time home trader are things like not their name / address on the v5, not meeting you at their home, saying things like 'i bought it for my wife but she doesnt like it', 'im selling it for my aunt / uncle / brother / dad'. If you're buying off gumtree, note their phone number and then search for it on gumtree or in google - you will see what else they are selling / have sold with that number. Also when you call, ask 'have you still the car for sale?' - if they have more than one, they will have to ask 'which one?' If it doesnt feel right, WALK AWAY.
  
• DONT buy a car with ANY known problems. They wont go away and if they were cheap to fix, the seller would have fixed them already. If in doubt WALK AWAY.
  
• FIND a good, cheap, honest, sympathetic mechanic. I use two different ones and they charge a tenner an hour. I can get a car serviced for £40 and discs and pads fitted for about £55.
  
• Have it serviced regularly and perform any ESSENTIAL maintenance.
  
• Keep the car until it finally gives up.
  
• SELL it for spares or repairs on ebay.
  
• Repeat.

DONT buy a cheapie car from a dealer - its a trade in and chances are its there because its previous owner has had to get rid. The dealer wont care about it and he will just want it - and you - off his car lot.

DONT keep changing your car every few months. Its ALWAYS better the devil you know.

TrickyWicky

fridgeracer wrote: »

so you are saying that if i got the citroen sorted out properly, serviced it every year, drove it carefully and not trash it (which i never do with any car)... it will still on it's own just break and fall into pieces bit by bit and by the time ive covered 140K miles on it something such as the oil cooler spliting or the head gasket blowing up unexpectadly will likely happen - in other words nothing i do will make it last?

Probably yes. Head gaskets DO FAIL EVENTUALLY. They are just that - a gasket to provide a seal between the head, rockerbox, cylinders and galleys for oil and coolant flow. Eventually they will rot away - they all do. Some manufacturers use better quality gaskets than others. Some drivers have a gentle foot on the pedal whereas others are heavy footed and thrash the engine. Inside each cylinder there is pressure and then the fuel EXPLODES. All of that puts even more destructive force on the gasket.

Even volvo and toyota engines have to have their head gaskets replaced and they're known for being amongst the most reliable in the world. Like anything, if it isn't made to a good standard you can expect it not to last as long as others. That goes for all components in a car from your oil cooler, head gasket to the piston rings and wheel bolts.

fridgeracer wrote: »

i did my research before buying it and checked many reviews and havent come across anyone whos said theyve had to scrap it or it's extremely unreliable. my guess is the idiot who had it before me did not get it properly serviced every year, only every 15K miles - which is probably why all these injectors have screwed up on it.

My guess is that you didn't research as thoroughly as you should have. The last time I bought a car I researched it for MONTHS not just a couple of hours. I researched everything from engine design, reliability, gearbox, weak points etc. Even if the idiot before you only serviced it every 15k that is nothing. My current car hasn't been serviced in 2.5 years. The previous owner didn't service it and I know the one before him didn't either - it was used on a FARM (I saw it on ebay and it was a badly abused car back then!). I've had it 2.5 years and done no servicing on it at all - just the odd emergency repair. It's had no new oil, no spark plugs (instead I cleaned them with a wire brush), no new oil filter, no air filter... nothing. It's still going. The only things I did do were an autobox fluid change and a breather overhaul because it was blocked from the sludge in the oil - emergency fixes (and no, I've still not done the oil since then). I still have no problems with it. It has 130k miles on the clock, 6 previous owners and the first time I saw it on ebay I avoided it like the plague. Then I found myself without a car and decided to buy another one and bought it blind. Picked it up and realised I'd bought an old dog.. which 2.5 years later is STILL RUNNING.

That proves my point. Do your thorough research and buy a car known for being solid. Speak to other people who own or have owned one, ask them about it, ask what problems they've had. Don't just go online for a couple of hours, read a few reviews and think you know it all about the car - you won't.

fridgeracer wrote: »

sorry but i am not a wealthy person, and cannot afford to simply go to a main dealer and pay top buck for a car just so i can have a piece of mind. i find it very wrong that if i buy something from even a reputable trader that says have been trading for 30+ years, provide rac warranties and HPI checks for free, at a much lower price than main dealers.... i MUST accept that i am effectively being ripped off. the law states as a consumer i am not allowed to be ripped off from anyone buying anything, including a car. yet it seems these motor traders do not give at all, and there is no one putting them in their place forcing them to check their cars and even refusing to take a part exchange without a vehicle inspection.

I ain't wealthy either. The car I've been telling you about cost me £550 from a bloke in the Blackpool area. Yes, you read me correctly, £550. So I had to spend a couple of hundred on breather parts and spent 8 hours in the middle of winter doing the work (freezing my nuts off). The car has still been reliable and has served me very well over long and short distance journeys. Truth be told when I bought it the seller told me there was something wrong, I knew exactly what it was (from research that I'd done) and put it off for over a year before the car basially died on a roundabout. 8 hours of DIY later and it was good to go again. Even now I don't spend a fortune on it, just the other day I fitted a second hand distributor to it. My catalytic convertor is dead (rattles like a tin of nails) but it continues to pass MOTs. Do you think I was ripped off?

Here is a few tips for you:
Buy privately if you don't want arguements with dealers
Don't use dealers for maintenance on a 10 year old car (parts maybe but not maintenance).
ASK OTHER OWNERS FOR THEIR EXPERIENCES
Buy REPUTABLE WELL MADE makes / models.
Don't buy european trash unless its ford or a middle class german car (Audi, VW) - no bottom of the range like the Polo. I've already pointed this out previously with the list of cars you bought.

You think you've been hard done by? I had two cars that let me down. A Renault and a Fiat. One toasted its head gasket, warped the head and despite a bodge fix then did it again a second time. The other blew its gearbox to bits within 2 weeks of purchase. I kid you not, there were bits of metal gears and teeth falling out of a 2 inch hole in the gearbox. Got that sorted and then the oil pump failed and the engine seized. That was a big turning point for me, I had to do some proper thorough research and look at cars that didn't suffer from these problems. I had to educate myself by doing a LOT of research about different manufacturers, their engines, their gearboxes, their weakpoints and common failures etc.

Seriously, yes there are dealers and sellers out there who will screw you for cash - it's called capitalism. YOU need to learn to avoid them and find the legitimate ones without blaming everyone but yourself.