schools opening when it has snowed!

johnnyl

Valli wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

and what's the difference between businesses and schools I wonder?

Oh yes; schools are full of children.

Businesses are staffed by adults who can make their own decisions. So if an adult chooses to try to walk to work through a blizzard, fine. If a (Primary) school allows the children to leave and leaves them to find their own way home...

Spot the difference?

there is no difference, the kids will go to school and will get picked up as normal by an adult and travel the normal way.

The bluff of the ratio has been called and now all of a sudden there is a new excuse.

brummiebabe

News reports in the West Midlands tonight suggested that £50 million is being lost in businesses in the area every day during this bad weather...and that one of the major issues was parents having to take time off off due to childcare.....Whilst I understand all the arguments on here, surely we have to find some other way of managing this situation? If this awful weather goes on for the next 2 months (and let's face it, with the mad weather we've had this year it could happen..) are we just going to keep shutting schools? We need to find an alternative way of managing this.

The reason parents now keep their children off is precisely because schools have got into this pattern (rightly or wrongly) that if it snows...school shuts. Children assume they shouldn't have to go in, and parents are now doing it too. My children seriously feel cheated if there is a tiny bit of snow & the school dares to open!!! This is just wrong......how is this setting them up for the reality of life that things can be difficult, but it doesn't mean you don't have to do it. I pity employers of the future with this generation being brought up to stay at home rather than make the effort to get in.

I don't work in a school.......but do work in the Health Service and have known staff sleep at their base to ensure there are staff available the next morning.......

Valli

johnnyl wrote: »

The bluff of the ratio has been called and now all of a sudden there is a new excuse.

Invalid argument. I never brought the ratio up. I did assert, after others (and you) had mentioned it, that the maximum class size, in KS1, is 30.

There is a differences between businesses, where all the people in there are contracted employees, and schools, where the staff have a duty of care (in loco parentis) to the pupils.

pupsicola

:dance:_party_:dance:

Got to love the ignore option on this site. Guess who is on mine folks?

This thread is so much more pleasant to read with the removal of just one individuals posts. It is now a stimulating and interesting discussion rather than a train crash.

bylromarha

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

Should be changed when it goes through the absence officer. We mark in SIMS as N, which then gets changed to Y. The absence officer checks that the children are those who could not walk to school AND are in areas where there was bad snow and no alternative transport.

The rules changed in 10 so that Y can be used when students cannot make it into school due to exceptional circumstances (such as weather). It used to be only used for things like the whole school closing or student's LEA provided transport being cancelled. The government changed to rules so that schools are not punished for staying open.

Maybe point this out to your head:
http://bso.bradford.gov.uk/news/4703-adverse-weather---attendance-at-school---use-of-the-y-code

Also from BBC "9. The contentious issue of school attendance - which is inspected by Ofsted - isn't part of the equation, according to the DfE, which says head teachers should not be worried about the impact that remaining open might have on their attendance statistics. Before 2010, pupils who did not turn up to school in extreme weather had to be marked down as absent, which wasn't the case if the school shut. But the DfE says the department amended regulations in September 2010, allowing the school to use the attendance code Y - which does not affect attendance statistics - when a pupil cannot get in because of severe weather. However if the head teacher believes that a child could have got to school, then the child should be recorded as code O - an unauthorised absence, it says."

Hence they were all O...the children could have come in by walking across the road, but parents chose not to bring them;

thegirlintheattic

brummiebabe wrote: »

News reports in the West Midlands tonight suggested that £50 million is being lost in businesses in the area every day during this bad weather...and that one of the major issues was parents having to take time off off due to childcare.....Whilst I understand all the arguments on here, surely we have to find some other way of managing this situation? If this awful weather goes on for the next 2 months (and let's face it, with the mad weather we've had this year it could happen..) are we just going to keep shutting schools? We need to find an alternative way of managing this.

The reason parents now keep their children off is precisely because schools have got into this pattern (rightly or wrongly) that if it snows...school shuts. Children assume they shouldn't have to go in, and parents are now doing it too. My children seriously feel cheated if there is a tiny bit of snow & the school dares to open!!! This is just wrong......how is this setting them up for the reality of life that things can be difficult, but it doesn't mean you don't have to do it. I pity employers of the future with this generation being brought up to stay at home rather than make the effort to get in.

I don't work in a school.......but do work in the Health Service and have known staff sleep at their base to ensure there are staff available the next morning.......

Brummie I think everyone here appreciates the difference between life and death, and not. Your workers deal with life and death, if they are not there someone could die. Benefits outweigh the risks. In schools it is not life and death and so the risks can outweigh the benefits.

Schools each have a risk assessment with a minimum staffing level (or at least every school risk assessment I have seen has a minimum staffing level to maintain adequate supervision; don't claim to have seen every schools RA). This is part of H&S legislation and is to do with protecting the safety and welfare of staff and students. If a school goes against its own risk assessment, and something happens, it is liable under H&S legislation.

Completely agree pupsicola :T The ignore function is a wonderful tool.

I would be interested in why very few arguments about school closures focus on the loss of a day's worth of education and instead on parents having to take time off to supervise their children.

gregg1

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

Brummie I think everyone here appreciates the difference between life and death, and not. Your workers deal with life and death, if they are not there someone could die. Benefits outweigh the risks. In schools it is not life and death and so the risks can outweigh the benefits.

Schools each have a risk assessment with a minimum staffing level (or at least every school risk assessment I have seen has a minimum staffing level to maintain adequate supervision; don't claim to have seen every schools RA). This is part of H&S legislation and is to do with protecting the safety and welfare of staff and students. If a school goes against its own risk assessment, and something happens, it is liable under H&S legislation.

Completely agree pupsicola :T The ignore function is a wonderful tool.

I would be interested in why very few arguments about school closures focus on the loss of a day's worth of education and instead on parents having to take time off to supervise their children.

You make some excellent points there.

misiek404

Why so much fuss about tiny bit of snow? I grew up in a country where there are 4-5 months of winter, tons of snow, average temp around -15c and no one ever closed my school

coolcait

pollypenny wrote: »

I'm getting a real d!jà vu feeling with johnnyl's posts.

The tone , references to a chemical plant and the word 'bobbins' give such an echo of Melly, who such a dogmatic and illogical teacher basher.

He clearly has spent all his time on here and not listened to any news, or read any papers. Otherwise, he'd know that many people, in all walks of life could not get to work.

It's fascinating to see that 146 of his posts have been made since 29/12/12 - and most of those 146 posts are concentrated on three threads:

'Term-time holidays' - johnnyl's input falling into the category of 'teacher-bashing

This thread - johnnyl's input falling into the category of 'teqcher-bashing'

the 'social services onto me about not having child in nursery' thread - johnnyl's input falling into the category of bashing another group of professionals.

And always the same style.

Always.

Kaz2904

We had a text message at 7.15 on Friday morning saying the school was shut. I know for a fact that 2 of the teachers live less than a mile away from the school. I also know that neither of them would have been able to get to school safely because the road was not safe to drive on and the pavements unsafe to walk on. Yet people still try to drive up and down this hill when it snows. I would hate for either of the teachers to get squished on their way into school. The previous head at this school would always open it because he said that there were children who would not get fed if the school was shut. That's sad isn't it?
I don't mind either way because I see it as the Heads responsibility to decide if the school is safe to be open. I work nights so the worst that happens on snow days for us is that DH is exceptionally late for work as he has to wait for me to get home before he can walk in to work. My journey home can't begin until the early shift arrive to take over from us and they are often skidding in the door half an hour late. We then make our way as far towards our homes as we can in the car and walk the rest of the way.
Our trust's extreme weather plan is "get to work. If you are really stuck, we can try to get a 4x4 to you but you must start walking in. If you get stuck at work, we have made arrangements for you to get a hot meal. We may be able to find somewhere for people to sleep". They have sent emails out from September onwards asking for volunteers with 4x4s or living close to be volunteers to get people in to work. People who are able to work from home are advised to contact their line manager and arrange it.
My dental appointment was cancelled on Friday because not one of the 15 or so dentists at our surgery was able to get into work as none live in our town.
Few of the tradesmen in our road went to work as none of them can get their vans out safely.
Our bins weren't collected. The hair salon and the tanning studio at the bottom of the road didn't open but the convenience shop did. The owners live above it. We had no mail either.
When I got to work on Friday night, most of us arrived half an hour early because we had all left home an hour early as we didn't know how long our journeys would take us. We can usually do this on a night shift because there is a bigger gap between getting up and going to work, we understand that this doesn't happen when you work days.
Most areas have been left very short staffed by the bad weather. Most businesses will have found sales fell.