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Elderly Relatives - Worried and stressed
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RonHill
Posts: 6 Forumite
Hi all, I'm using this account as I'm going to go quite in depth into some very personal issues and I would like to keep that separate from my usual on-line persona.
The following is all in relation to my partners elderly grandparents; they have been more like parents to her for the entire duration of her life and as such she feels (as do I by way of viewing them as family) we should help them any way we can to make the best of their current situation.
Her granddad has been diagnosed with cysts, amongst types of growth on his spine. Over the last twelve months that has seen him go from one of the most active 80-something's I've ever met to being completely bed-bound.
Just prior to Christmas and after many falls (as his legs aren't working, nor his hands) and trips to hospital (the most recent of which lasted three weeks over Christmas) it was finally decided that he should no longer be left unattended medically speaking and that he should have multiple daily home visits to assist.
Grandma is no spring chicken herself, so there are carers coming first thing in the morning to hoist him into a wheelchair and move him to the living room; at lunch time to change his colostomy bag etc and then in the evening to get him back in the hoist and into his bed.
This has been ongoing for a fortnight now, amongst visits from doctors etc and Grandma has begun to receive carers allowance for cooking all his meals, cleaning up around him etc. The indication from the hospital was that this care would be free for the first 6 weeks.
Grandma is now concerned as there is pressure being put on her by the authorities to have an eligibility meeting, to assess how much she can pay towards the care etc.
A little background on them financially; around 20 years ago they took out an interest only re-mortgage against their property to buy a property for their daughter (my partners mum); this was recently sold at no gain (for the same price as the re-mortgage) and the paperwork is going through for that to be cleared with the proceeds of the sale of that property. Aside from this, they have savings less than £23,500 but they do own the house (approx £180k) outright once the re-mortgage has been paid off
Grandma is worried that they may be able to take the house from them as well as the little savings that they have.
She's also worried that they may be able to prevent them paying off the interest only re-mortgage (about £40k) in order to ship them into some sort of home or pay for the costs.
She's the very definition of a little old lady and I'm looking for some answers to try and put her mind at rest.
We've had a few conversations with other people we know and the following have been suggested.
It's a very nasty position for them to be in, they've worked all their lives to own that house and to get it to the point it is (it's a picture perfect bungalow with, until recently, the nicest and neatest gardens you've ever seen!).
I'd be grateful if anyone could advise on anything I've mentioned above, or even if anyone could tell us just who we should speak to about it. I can't help but be sceptical about meeting the authorities without prior consultation, I dread to think the state she would be in fretting about it if we weren't there to help.
I've done this anon so that I can be honest completely without fear of it being linked back to me, because of that I am happy to give any further information required to provide advice or suggest a place specialising in such complicated issues.
The following is all in relation to my partners elderly grandparents; they have been more like parents to her for the entire duration of her life and as such she feels (as do I by way of viewing them as family) we should help them any way we can to make the best of their current situation.
Her granddad has been diagnosed with cysts, amongst types of growth on his spine. Over the last twelve months that has seen him go from one of the most active 80-something's I've ever met to being completely bed-bound.
Just prior to Christmas and after many falls (as his legs aren't working, nor his hands) and trips to hospital (the most recent of which lasted three weeks over Christmas) it was finally decided that he should no longer be left unattended medically speaking and that he should have multiple daily home visits to assist.
Grandma is no spring chicken herself, so there are carers coming first thing in the morning to hoist him into a wheelchair and move him to the living room; at lunch time to change his colostomy bag etc and then in the evening to get him back in the hoist and into his bed.
This has been ongoing for a fortnight now, amongst visits from doctors etc and Grandma has begun to receive carers allowance for cooking all his meals, cleaning up around him etc. The indication from the hospital was that this care would be free for the first 6 weeks.
Grandma is now concerned as there is pressure being put on her by the authorities to have an eligibility meeting, to assess how much she can pay towards the care etc.
A little background on them financially; around 20 years ago they took out an interest only re-mortgage against their property to buy a property for their daughter (my partners mum); this was recently sold at no gain (for the same price as the re-mortgage) and the paperwork is going through for that to be cleared with the proceeds of the sale of that property. Aside from this, they have savings less than £23,500 but they do own the house (approx £180k) outright once the re-mortgage has been paid off
Grandma is worried that they may be able to take the house from them as well as the little savings that they have.
She's also worried that they may be able to prevent them paying off the interest only re-mortgage (about £40k) in order to ship them into some sort of home or pay for the costs.
She's the very definition of a little old lady and I'm looking for some answers to try and put her mind at rest.
We've had a few conversations with other people we know and the following have been suggested.
- Put my partners name onto the house, so they cannot force her to sell up in the future
- Transfer the house entirely into my partners name; I'm not sure how this would work if anything were to happen in the next (is it seven years) but after that they couldn't touch it is this right?
- Savings under £23.5k will not be used to pay for care
- So long as there is someone over 65 living in the house, they can't sell it to pay for the other ones care
It's a very nasty position for them to be in, they've worked all their lives to own that house and to get it to the point it is (it's a picture perfect bungalow with, until recently, the nicest and neatest gardens you've ever seen!).
I'd be grateful if anyone could advise on anything I've mentioned above, or even if anyone could tell us just who we should speak to about it. I can't help but be sceptical about meeting the authorities without prior consultation, I dread to think the state she would be in fretting about it if we weren't there to help.
I've done this anon so that I can be honest completely without fear of it being linked back to me, because of that I am happy to give any further information required to provide advice or suggest a place specialising in such complicated issues.
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Comments
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I believe being tenants in common would help. Anything else would be deprivation of assets.
My friends parents were tenants in common. His will left his part in trust to his sons. Her part is being used to pay for care.
You need advice as it may be too late, I'm sure someone more knowledgable will be on to help.
Read up on deprivation of assets. I know that if your parents were younger and in good health and gave away assets knowing that they did not require any care at that point then there is nothing that the authorities can do. However, it now becomes complicated as they need help now.0 -
Grandma is now concerned as there is pressure being put on her by the authorities to have an eligibility meeting, to assess how much she can pay towards the care etc.
A little background on them financially; around 20 years ago they took out an interest only re-mortgage against their property to buy a property for their daughter (my partners mum); this was recently sold at no gain (for the same price as the re-mortgage) and the paperwork is going through for that to be cleared with the proceeds of the sale of that property. Aside from this, they have savings less than £23,500 but they do own the house (approx £180k) outright once the re-mortgage has been paid off
Grandma is worried that they may be able to take the house from them as well as the little savings that they have.
She's also worried that they may be able to prevent them paying off the interest only re-mortgage (about £40k) in order to ship them into some sort of home or pay for the costs.
The value of the house they live will not be counted as capital. They will not be made to sell it.
The £40k might be a different matter. I'm not sure whether repaying the mortgage would be considered as deliberate deprivation of capital.
She will have to agree to a financial assessment otherwise they will just stop the carers coming in.0 -
..We've had a few conversations with other people we know and the following have been suggested.
- Put my partners name onto the house, so they cannot force her to sell up in the future
- Transfer the house entirely into my partners name; I'm not sure how this would work if anything were to happen in the next (is it seven years) but after that they couldn't touch it is this right?
It's far too late in the day to even think about doing anything like that...- Savings under £23.5k will not be used to pay for care
The upper savings threshold in England is £23,250 - anyone over that limit is expected to cough up in full - the lower savings limit is £14,250 - anyone over that limit is expected to make a contribution...- So long as there is someone over 65 living in the house, they can't sell it to pay for the other ones care
Correct I believe. The property will be disregarded.0 -
Just one point: no one can 'take the house off them' as long as one or both of them lives there. There is no law in the land that can make people homeless in circumstances like these!
Please reassure them of this at least. No one can 'ship them into some sort of home' against their wishes. Nor can they be prevented from paying off their interest-only mortgage.
They have plenty to worry them health-wise without worrying about things that can't happen.
HTH[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
Before I found wisdom, I became old.0 -
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It's far too late in the day to even think about doing anything like that.
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Correct I believe. The property will be disregarded.
If the property won't be considered because Grandma lives there, say we now put my partners name on (a 33% owner) the house. How would that affect if if they weren't considering it at the moment?
Or would it get messy down the line if he has to go into a care home (or she does too) etc.0 -
margaretclare wrote: »Just one point: no one can 'take the house off them' as long as one or both of them lives there. There is no law in the land that can make people homeless in circumstances like these!
Please reassure them of this at least. No one can 'ship them into some sort of home' against their wishes. Nor can they be prevented from paying off their interest-only mortgage.
They have plenty to worry them health-wise without worrying about things that can't happen.
HTH
Thank you. That's the principal concern really; as that's a few people have said the same thing now I can reassure her properly of just that
The rest, protecting what they've got is more for their interests in the future for the minute. If we can somehow use the rules to our advantage, it'll help us down the line with making sure they have anything they need. Granddad is still into his gadgets and kindles / tablets and LED tv's aren't cheap
It makes me laugh cos he used my email address to sign up to amazon so I get an email every time he buys a new book. He gets through them at an alarming rate!0 -
If the property won't be considered because Grandma lives there, say we now put my partners name on (a 33% owner) the house. How would that affect if if they weren't considering it at the moment?
Or would it get messy down the line if he has to go into a care home (or she does too) etc.
I think it's too late to do this now and there are potential problems in doing this.
The best thing would be for the grandparents to own the house as "tenants in common", each owning half of the house. They can then leave in their wills their half of the house to someone other than their spouse but with the proviso that the surviving spouse can stay in the house and/or downsize as required. The beneficiary won't get their inheritance until the other spouse dies or goes into residential care. If the survivor does go into care, only their half of the house can be used towards the bills.
If a spouse is living in the family home, its value is disregarded if the other spouse goes into a home. The same applies if a disabled relative lives there or a relative over 60 or if someone has given up their own home to become a live-in carer for the elderly relative.0 -
I think it's too late to do this now and there are potential problems in doing this.
The best thing would be for the grandparents to own the house as "tenants in common", each owning half of the house. They can then leave in their wills their half of the house to someone other than their spouse but with the proviso that the surviving spouse can stay in the house and/or downsize as required. The beneficiary won't get their inheritance until the other spouse dies or goes into residential care. If the survivor does go into care, only their half of the house can be used towards the bills.
If a spouse is living in the family home, its value is disregarded if the other spouse goes into a home. The same applies if a disabled relative lives there or a relative over 60 or if someone has given up their own home to become a live-in carer for the elderly relative.
Sorry to be asking so many questions!
If we help them with this (it's basically a re-worded version of what is in the wills anyway) and get it set up as above; what would happen if BOTH needed to go into care?
Would the house then be sold and used to pay?0 -
If the property won't be considered because Grandma lives there, say we now put my partners name on (a 33% owner) the house. How would that affect if if they weren't considering it at the moment?
Or would it get messy down the line if he has to go into a care home (or she does too) etc.
Not allowed at this late stage I;m afraid.make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
and we will never, ever return.0 -
Sorry to be asking so many questions!
If we help them with this (it's basically a re-worded version of what is in the wills anyway) and get is set up as above; what would happen if BOTH needed to go into care?
Would the house then be sold and used to pay?
Certainly not to start with,
They would have income pensions, carers allowance that goes towards care, then savings used to top up the cost.
I would think that only then, when savings run out, the family would have to sell the house to help pay for the fees.make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
and we will never, ever return.0
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