Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Virgin Atlantic ONLY

Rex_Vaughan

Hi folks,

I submitted a claim for 11 passengers for a 6+ hour delay on VS16 on May 12th 2010. We were told at the gate that the delay was due to "scheduling issues". We were at the tail end of the ash cloud airspace closures/reroutings but I saw that our flight was the only flight delayed significantly that night as both the BA to Gatwick and the other Virgin flight to Gatwick took off pretty much on time. I have now received a reply from Virgin denying my claim, they are citing EC and blaming the delay on "airspace closures and longer than expected flight times". I have checked the flight stats web site and the flight time was no longer than the normal flight time (I.E we were 371 mins late taking off and around 383 mins late landing which left a net delay of about 12 mins).
I have looked up a report from Eurocontrol.int who compiled a report on the disruption and in the report it states that air traffic was expected to be normal for that day and that the cloud had dispersed and that there were no (relevant) airspace closures. Having looked at flightstats at all the incoming flights both to LGW and LHR from the USA my flight was the only one substantially delayed. One would have expected that if the ash cloud was affecting one flight it would have affected most if not all the flights taking similar routings? I would have thought if all the other flights could make the trip without too much delay then there is no case to claim the ash cloud was at fault. What are your thoughts?

Many thanks

Rex

Debsyh

Hi, new to the forum so be gentle. I have read FAQs and looked at both the rulings. I have applied for compensation and been turned down on the grounds of extraordinary circumstances - the engine would not start in Gatwick and the fix proved complex - virgins words. We were flying from Manchester so the plane didn't get there for some five hours. I looked at the NBA letter but given that they have already given their defence have tweaked it a bit. Could people please give their honest advice as to the letter below. Thanks

"I have received you letter dated the 30th April 2013, the contents of which I note.

You wrote that the flight was delayed leaving Gatwick (prior to arriving at Manchester) due to the fact that an engine was unable to start and the fix proved to be quite complex.

The ECJ has quite clearly ruled that technical problems are unlikely to be held as a valid defence of extraordinary circumstances to a compensation claim and this is further supported by the judgement in Wallentin-Hermann.

This is compounded by the fact that it was actually the flight from Gatwick to Manchester which caused our delay and again difficulties encountered on previous flights which then impact on the flight which we were scheduled to take are not covered by extraordinary circumstances.

You are clearly using extraordinary circumstances as a defence and I dispute that in this instance this is correct. As such I would request that you send me copies of the EU ruling which you feel detail that the circumstances above are not technical and inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of an airline, and are therefore covered by extraordinary circumstance. In addition I am also requesting a copy of the engineers report and working notes in relation to the fault. I request that this information is received within 14 days of this letter if you wish to pursue this defence. Alternatively I request compensation in full within the same timescale.

Should you neither settle my claim in full nor provide a full defence to my claim within the above timescale, I reserve the right to issue legal proceedings without giving you further notice in writing."

weybridge147

Many thanks to Ladylean, a very determined lady!, We were on the same flight to Vegas, and suffered the same delaying tactics(See previous post). On seeing her great result, I emailed Virgin on 8th May stating I was aware of her result through Martin's Forum, and as I was on the same flight I would be taking the same course of action. However Virgin might like to consider saving the £70 court fee, and settle direct. I asked for a response within 72 hours. Imagine my surprise when today I received a recorded delivery letter from Virgin stating they had reviewed the claim, and enclosed a cheque for the full amount(£ equivalent of 1200 euros) Thanks again Ladylean. Shows persistance pays!

Kevtamuk

Congratulations to Ladylean and Weybridge. In light of their claims both being for the same flight I thought it might be wise to list what flights we are claiming for so that if someone is successful it will be immediately obvious for anyone else on the same flight what the chances are of getting compensation.

Our flight was the VS003 4th August 2007 - Heathrow to JFK - 3 hour 40 minute delay. We have just started court proceedings having had a negative response to our LBA.

abeano

Is anyone else claiming for flight on 3rd May 2008 with Virgin Atlantic from MCO (Orlando International) to LGW (London Gatwick) Flight Number VS16 which was 262 minutes delayed?

I have received a response from Virgin saying that they are investigating my claim and will respond within the next 6-12 weeks.

Bestdea1s

Well Virgin replied to my claim for 8 people stating ''unexpected technical problem. The aircraft had suffered a thrust reverser problem during a previous service and had to be grounded fro repairs. Thus knock on effect etc etc and could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.''

So where do I go next, CAA or small claims.

Or do I accept that a faulty aircraft is 'Extraordinary Circumstances'

Anyone who can help if you have been through this please let me know.

UPDATE _ FILED CAA online complaint as only took 10 mins and is good for small claims if I have a response from CAA.

Has anyone else quoted the recent Halsall judgement in the Stoke-on-Trent County Court where the airline claimed faults were ''extraordinary circumstances' but the Judge disagreed.

:mad:
Just sent off Money Claim to courts - 8 of us claiming on a single form - cost £120 court fee - Total claimed £4188 plus interest of over £800. I will keep all posted.

Ladylean

weybridge147 wrote: »

Many thanks to Ladylean, a very determined lady!, We were on the same flight to Vegas, and suffered the same delaying tactics(See previous post). On seeing her great result, I emailed Virgin on 8th May stating I was aware of her result through Martin's Forum, and as I was on the same flight I would be taking the same course of action. However Virgin might like to consider saving the £70 court fee, and settle direct. I asked for a response within 72 hours. Imagine my surprise when today I received a recorded delivery letter from Virgin stating they had reviewed the claim, and enclosed a cheque for the full amount(£ equivalent of 1200 euros) Thanks again Ladylean. Shows persistance pays!

Great news! Glad you got your money too. There's just no way Virgin cannot pay out for this particular flight delay now, so anyone else out there, do the same as Weybridge and wait for the cheque!:)

worriedwoman_2

In case anyone wants to know, I completed my MCOL forms with Virgin's Dunstable address on it.
I have received an acknowledgement of service, stating that Virgin intend to defend all of the claim. I am now hoping they will pay up before the 28 days in which they have to file a response! (With my luck I will be the first person they decide to go to court with!!)
Anyway, just so you know, the Dunstable address is fine to use, however the address which Virgin have quoted on the acknowledgement is the Crawley one - and it has been signed by Claims Manager - Linda Thorpe.

pedritothegreat

I have duly sent my claim to the small claims court (County Court Luton). Today, after 2 days my letter had been sent, another letter from Virgin Atlantic Airways arrived claiming that "the new EU ruling does provide the consumer with more clarity in respect of delays and cancellations; however, I must advise that 'extraordinary circumstances' do not relate soley to external events. Technical faults are not excluded from this ruling providing they are not inherent". The letter continues: "The defect on this particular flight was not 'intrinsic' to the normal maintenance process. Having reviewed the reports pertaining to this particular flight, I can only reiterate the explanation given in our reply to you".
I am lost with this explanation, Their previous letter of explanation stated that the fault was with the aircraft on a previous service, not my flight. We will see what the small claims court makes of it all and I'll keep you posted.

Vauban

pedritothegreat wrote: »

I have duly sent my claim to the small claims court (County Court Luton). Today, after 2 days my letter had been sent, another letter from Virgin Atlantic Airways arrived claiming that "the new EU ruling does provide the consumer with more clarity in respect of delays and cancellations; however, I must advise that 'extraordinary circumstances' do not relate soley to external events. Technical faults are not excluded from this ruling providing they are not inherent". The letter continues: "The defect on this particular flight was not 'intrinsic' to the normal maintenance process. Having reviewed the reports pertaining to this particular flight, I can only reiterate the explanation given in our reply to you".
I am lost with this explanation, Their previous letter of explanation stated that the fault was with the aircraft on a previous service, not my flight. We will see what the small claims court makes of it all and I'll keep you posted.

There is no provision in European law for exempting airlines from paying compensation if the technical failure is not "intrinsic to the normal maintenance process". Rather, as Wallentin notes, technical failures can constitute extraordinary circumstances "only if they relate to an event which, like those listed in recital 14 in the preamble to that regulation, is not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and is beyond the actual control of that carrier on account of its nature or origin". The judgement goes on to give some examples of non-inherent occurances, such as a fleet-wide recall/grounding or a terrorist attack. Assuming your technical fault was caused by neither of these, you should be okay!