confusion at the vets and I'm unsure who is liable for the fees???

Elric

Hello All,

My dog was viciously attacked on New Years Eve by a staffy (he's OK now, thankfully) - we took Charlie (our Jack Russell) to my local vets who examined him. Satisfied he would heal up he said he will just need medicating ; on my way out a nurse told me to take half a tablet from one bottle and half a tablet from another (anti-biotics etc) and to administer twice a day, then going on to show me a bottle of Metacam(anti-inflamatories/painkiller) and how to measure a 10ml dosage with a plunger device - (as I recall she said to take this twice a day also, but I can't be 100% certain about this, emotions were running high after what had just happened and so she could have said different, if I'm being honest)

I asked her at the time if the dosages were written on the labels in case I forgot by the time I got home and she said they were

I went home and when I examined the labels on the bottles they stated 0.5 tablets twice a day on both the anti-biotics, however on the Metacam label it just said "10ML x 1.0". I checked the instructions on the box (no instructions were inside the box) and there was nothing to indicate how many times a day the Metacam should be taken. So I gave Charlie 2 doses of the Metacam anlong with his anti-biotics, as I thought this is what she said anyway

Everything was fine and we returned to the vets 2 days later for a checkup and the vet was happy with how the swelling was etc. - at this point he asked me how I was medicating him (via his food or drink) and it was then I'd told him I was giving Charlie 2 doses - he said it should be once a day but it shouldn't matter that we had given him twice as much and to continue taking it once a day with the rest of the meds for the next few days - he also said to give them a ring whenwe run out of Metacam if Charlie was still in discomfort

So sure enough this morning the Metacam came close to running out and because Charlie still looked in discomfort I rang the vets and asked for some more, explaining to the receptionist why it had ran out early, she said thats fine I will get it authorised.

Later this afternoon I rang to make sure the prescription was ready, she had a look at a file and said she would go in and get it authorised now for me so my wife could go and pick it up later - then she said that's all sorted and it was ready

I had to go somewhere else and when I got back my wife told me that Charlie would have to stay at the vets because the vets think that the extra dosage could put Charlie in some danger, the vet had rang the drug company up to double check everything and they told the vet to bring Charlie in because there have been known cases of kidney failure and death with overdoses of Metacam and the drug company considered 2 double doses was enough to be cautious at this point and said it best to admit charlie for 3-4 days while the vets monitor him

My wife and I took Charlie up to the vets, understandably worried and now he will be staying there until monday. When I asked who was going to pay for this they were not sure and said I should ask one of the partners who will be in tomorrow (umm)

we are insured for Charlies vet fees but I can see there might be problems here and I wondered who will be responsible for paying these extra fees if my insurance only pays for the initial damage caused by the staffy and not for the treatment / monitoring because of the extra dosage of Metacam, who should pay ??

I'm annoyed that the dosage wasn't written on the Metacam, like it was on the anti-biotics (on which clearly stated twice a day, why not the metacam?) - also I am annoyed that no one made it clear that this was a potentially dangerous drug if taken more than once a day which is what they are now saying (after they spoke to the drug company); also when we went back to the vets for his check up why were there no alarm bells ringing when I told the vet I had given Charlie 2 double doses? (the person I told this too was one of the partners by the way) - why are they not aware of these dangers when they dish the meds out?? clearly they only realised the danger after speaking to the drug company, in fact the vet almost gave me some more Metacam today (she just happened to double check)

Anyway, we have to hope Charlie is going to be OK and by Monday we will know where we stand - but as far as these extra vet fees are concerned, who will be liable to pay them if my insurance won't include them into the claim?

In which case if the vets bill me, where do I stand and what happens, do I let them take me to court and I can answer my case in court? (I don't know how this would span out)??

There is a chance the vets will be able to claim off the insurance but could someone explain to me what I can do if they don't?

advice and information would be much appreciated

thanks in advance

Elric

spacey2012

Do you have details of the owner of the fighting breed "staffy"

Elric

yes, they were very good actually - they paid my excess and I agreed to claim on my insurance. Police were involved and arrived on the scene (we had to use a crowbar to unlock the staffy's jaws, Charlie was severly hurt, deep cuts and bruises)

spacey2012

They have a duty of care under the Law to ensure their animal does not cause loss or harm.
As it has, you can sue them for all costs involved.
When keeping a fighting breed type of dog, it comes with the territory.
Your insurance may well sue them as well.

Elric

hadn't considered sueing the owners, I suppose if my insurance don't pay all the cost I should choose that root instead

thanks for tip ;-)

spacey2012

Indeed, but offer them the opportunity to make good your losses first.
Including transport.
Good luck

Elric

Does anyone know where I stand if the insurance doesn't pay up?

Fosterdog

I'm really sorry about what has happened to your boy, I hope he is fully on the mend soon.

I have to be honest though, you are the one who got the dosage wrong, the vet wrote it on the bottle as 10ml x 1.0 not 10ml x 2.0, they also talked you through how to administer. If you were still not sure you should have asked.

Instead of just giving a double dose twice why didn't you phone your vet again? Even if they are closed most vet numbers will redirect to an emergency line out of hours where they could answer. Or you could have gone to Metacams website where it tells you that one dose lasts 24 hours so it is only needed once a day. You could have done a google search for it. You could have asked here if anyone knew (although we can't give medical advice we could advise any of the above to help or give our own experiences)

You are right to expect the other dogs owners to pay for the excess and initial treatment but everything linked to the overdose was caused by you mis dosing so they shouldn't have to pay for that. If the insurance refuses to pay you would have a hard time convincing a judge that the other owners should pay for a mistake you made if you pursue them through small claims court.

I would however expect some reduction directly from your vet for them failing to take action as soon as you told them you had overdosed, it could lead to kidney failure and there are cases of Metacam overdoses resulting in fatalities, your vet should know this and should have acted on it straight away.

How is your boy doing now? Is he recovering well with no problems?

krlyr

Do you know if the Staffie owner had 3rd party liability insurance for their dog? They may be covered under their home insurance too, if not. This would be my first port of call - claiming on your own insurance is OK but may well affect your premiums. If the Staffie owner has insurance then all your costs should be paid for by them.

Aside from that, the issue with the Metacam, I think it's a little blurry. You only think you were told to issue it twice a day but can't be sure, and I would interpret that labelling (10.0ml x 1) to mean once a day. However, I've had lots of sick pets (fondness of a species prone to illness and a soft spot for taking on unwanted, reject pets!) so lots of experience with medication - it perhaps should have been a bit clearer on the label. You could perhaps argue that point to try to get them to reduce the bill or pay it on your behalf (maybe play on the fact that they did not recognise the seriousness of this mistake immediately) but I would hazard a guess that if they refused to out of good will then you would struggle down the legal route as the label did not say twice a day like the antibiotics did. Dosage instructions could have been confirmed by phoning the vet before administering the medication, or even looking online (the manufacturer lists dosage information on their website).
My vets did actually produce a bit of a confusing label on the last batch of my dog's daily medication but I knew from the previous dose that it was wrong, and from looking at the manufacturer's guidelines online that the original dosage was the correct one. Perhaps it should not fall in our hands to have to confirm this information - but I think in your case, where the label was not incorrect but perhaps just unclear, it would be wobbly ground to contest legally.

Elric

thank you for your thoughts

Charlie is doing OK. I went to see him this morning and all seems well

thinking more clearly this morning I realise the fault ultimately lies with me - should have googled it, I google everything else! But when emotions are high you don't always think it through and I still think the vet should have given me some kind of verbal warning about the dangers of metacam

When I told the vet we had been double dosing Charlie, nothing was said to us then about potential dangers even then?? - and I found out today that he shouldn't have started the metacam until the day after we saw the vet because Charlie had an injection that day - this was not explained to me on the day, that much I am sure of!

I think the vets are irresponsible by not giving me a verbal warning about the drug - words to the effect that you MUST NOT GIVE YOUR PET MORE THAN ONE DOSE and have clearer instructions on the label. I read the metacam website today which stated there were instructions in the box, there were no instruction in mine - i'm 100% certain of that

having said all that, I think my insurance will cover me, even if i have to make a separate claim and pay the excess again, I'll have to wait and see

I just spoke to the owners of the staffie and they do not have insurance (suprise)

I'll post back here and let you know how I get on

Thank you for input

Elric

orlao

I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised by this - when my animals have had metacam they've always had a loading (double) dose to start with for 3 days...the leaflet in the box also confirms this. (yes, I'm sad, I always read these from cover to cover!)

Can you confirm that you were giving 10ml rather than the 10kg marker on the enclosed syringe? As that would be a mahoosive dose for a JRT - IIRC the recommended dosage is .01 ml per kg per day as a maintenance dose.

ETA just noticed that Charlie had the injection at the vets - that counts as the 'loading' dose, again IIRC.