Yeh Nice One Martin .......... Not

Need_More_Money_2

Whilst I would agree that the level of the charges imposed by banks is unreasonable, they do need to have some charge as a deterent against debt. Otherwise, I think we will only make the debt problem in this country worse.

I certainly agree that many of the people in debt are in that situation through no fault of their own. Perhaps due to sickness or losing a job. However, I feel that the attitude to debt as a whole in society has shifted so that many people go into unmanageable levels of debt without even thinking about it.
Ideally, the former group should be treated with more sympathy by the banks than the latter group. But I guess it is difficult for the banks to work out who is breaking the terms and conditions of their account through no fault of their own, and who are the ones doing it because they want a new car and the latest mobile phone and TV.

MSE_Martin

While I'm not going to enter in this fully a few salient points

1. The increase alone in UK banking profits is more than the amount taken in fees (4bn in fees, profits this year 38bn last year 33bn).
2. Bank charges and debt are not synonomous. The best way to avoid charges is not to have them, as I've stated. Yet when you do they are designed to be penal, not just the £35, but the fact his is per transaction, allowing a few pounds over the limit to lead to £100s in charges, then the inability to repay that quickly leading to snowballed charges in the £1,000s
Bank charges are not always 'someones fault' go read my blog about the woman caring for her autistic son, who budgetted well, but the state missed out her benefits payment (as an aside its much cheaper for all our taxes for her to be caring for him than to send him away for care) the bank slapped charges on for unpaid DDs, and two years later was £3,000 of charges, without ever doing anything wrong or overspending.
3. Of course people must manage their money, debt is all about responsible borrowing, yet we live in a confusion marketing world.
4. The banks are acting unlawfully - those who say 'what im doing' is wrong, should actually be saying the banks shouldn't have done this in the first place. This is correcting an error - not causing a problem
5. The UK banking market is very competitive, and the most profitable in Europe. Any bank who introduces fees on current accounts will lose enormous business as was seen with first direct (which actually put fees on because of dormant accounts not bank charge reclaims). Some banks, e.g. alliance and leicester have already pledged to stay completely fees free. If any major bank charges fees it will bleed customes.
6. Trademark your argument stems from the 'I behaved well why should I be punished for all the others'. Actually you're the least likely to be impacted if there is any change, you're a desirable customer in a competitive market who stays within product rules - this is where the market is most competitive.
7. Thus if there is a change it will be with the very people who have reclaimed charges. Yet it is my hope a. many will have learned to be more wary of the banks and b. the payout will reduce the debts back to more appropriate levels (ie the cost of what was borrowed and the interest) and thus enable people to manage their finances more appropriately and work within their limits.
8. Am I ashamed, no I'm bloody proud. This site is about helping everyone. I remind you of what it says on the front page "

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=150 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#faecd3><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 12px" align=left width=140 bgColor=#faecd3 colSpan=3>MoneySaving is about cutting bills not cutting back. It's about being a sassy consumer. Companies try to screw us for profits. MoneySaving shows you how to screw them back.</TD><TD width=5></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
"
I feel I'm acting in a way that is consistent with that. And as this site and I are doing what it says on the tin, if you don't like it, i suggest you lump it.
9. Remember the banks spend billions in marketing, advertising, teaching their staff to sell. The fact that consumers are finally redressing that balance means a more competitive and open society which should benefit all. I spoke at the Economic Research Council the other day and this was a widely held view. So if you want to support the banks, feel free, but when you complain that consumers getting their money back from banks using unlawful and unfair tactics is a bad thing; perhaps you should be blaming the banks for using those tactics in the first place?

Just a little food for thought.

Martin

PS And do I profit from this. Damn right I do. I profit in the form of a huge smile slapped bang in the middle of my face each time I read of a reported success and someone who's eyes are being opened, has stood up for themselves and who's got back money rightfully taken.

Need_More_Money_2

nel wrote:

lets not forget that the banks have got to take responsibility in some cases for giving to much away, they flash their cash in such a glamourous way and don't take into consideration the individuals "real" means of paying it back, maybe they should take into consideration the fact that pepole DO have rainy days i.e unemployment or sickness. Yes i know there are payment protection insurances but one little slip (for whatever reason)and the DD for the insurance does go out on time and your screwed.

Depends on whether it you think it should be the responsibility of the individual to ensure they don't borrow beyond their means, or the responsibility of the bank not to lend more than someone can afford to pay back.

I guess we need to educate people to be more financially 'savvy'. Which is what this site is about

pigginsexy

Well said Martin. No need to say anymore.

Thanks for this website, not only to reclaim fees but for the other moneysaving part as well.

I am sure i will not be the only one to say it.

phil4321

I hope all those who oppose people claiming back their charges promptly lose their jobs, can't pay their mortgage, and have their house repossessed by the bank.

Need_More_Money_2

Martin,
I agree with most of what you say in you post, but perhaps you could clarify the following:

MSE_Martin wrote:

6. Trademark your argument stems from the 'I behaved well why should I be punished for all the others'. Actually you're the least likely to be impacted if there is any change, you're a desirable customer in a competitive market who stays within product rules - this is where the market is most competitive.

Is it true that those of us who 'behave' by paying credit card bills in full each month, not going overdrawn, and not missing payments are desirable customers? The banks don't make so much profit from us which surely makes us less desirable customers?

sarah1975uk

Banks and finance companies love those that get into debt and regularly get into financial trouble... hence why they report such huge profits... from those who get charged rediculously high charges. SURELY THE PROFITS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES!! eg: customers getting charged for taking their OWN money out of a cash machine as one example!!!

Al_Mac

MSE_Martin wrote:

teaching their staff to sell.

I think that should read "Expecting their staff to sell without any training at all", which is more the case

krisskross

phil4321 wrote:

I hope all those who oppose people claiming back their charges promptly lose their jobs, can't pay their mortgage, and have their house repossessed by the bank.

Ahhhhhhhhh but these people will almost certainly have mortgage protection insurance and money stashed away in case disaster strikes.

Al_Mac

sarah1975uk wrote:

Banks and finance companies love those that get into debt and regularly get into financial trouble... hence why they report such huge profits... from those who get charged rediculously high charges. SURELY THE PROFITS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES!! eg: customers getting charged for taking their OWN money out of a cash machine as one example!!!

Bank charges to personal customers contribute very little to over all profit.

If you use a cash machine owned by your own bank, you shouldn't pay. But why shouldn't you pay to use another banks?