Estimate of cost to install phoenix gas.

shalis

I am grateful for all responses and appreciate any advice given, so let's all respect each other even if we disagree.
The usage in the last 12 months is around £750. The supplier is Airtricity. According to their website (direct debit & e-bill) tariffs are as follows:-
Daytime: 13.32pence/KWh
Night: 6.85
Standing Charge: 11.39.
As the storage heaters have been in place for not much short of 30 yrs. is it not possible that their efficiency could be in question compared to more modern ones? I know there is not much inside these things, so maybe their age is irrelevant.
I have heard arguments for and against heating only the rooms you use, as opposed to heating all rooms. By the way, in the Winter months a fire is a necessity, so the cost of coal has also to be factored in.
There is a convector heater in the each bedroom, but again I understood that they are quite hard on electricity, albeit it is suggested they only be used for 30 mins nightly (in the more expensive tariff period).
Regarding the meter. Several years ago we thought the electric bills were on the high side. We contacted NIE (now Power NI) who sent out a contractor to check the meter(outside) This guy then said that ALL of the electricity was being supplied on the low E7 tariff, and had the audacity to suggest that I had tampered with the meter.. Firstly I consider myself to be an honest person. I know nothing about electricity and would never interfere with it anyway, and secondly, if I had done would I be stupid enough to call the supplier and have them send someone out to look at the meter? Clearly he wasn't able to work that one out for himself. He could not wait to install a new meter and went away with a smug look on his face. End result of course was that the electric bills rose even higher. Looking back on it now he is lucky I only gave him some verbal responses.
Donna2588 mentions £160 a quarter for the Winter months with her gas, which is a heck of a lot less than £260/£270 every 2 months in Winter. Equivalent to £390 a quarter. So, in a nutshell, I am still undecided as to the best route to go. As I have already said, I do appreciate input from anyone with some knowledge of this subject.

x12yhp

shalis wrote: »

There is a convector heater in the each bedroom, but again I understood that they are quite hard on electricity, albeit it is suggested they only be used for 30 mins nightly (in the more expensive tariff period).

This was the case in my apartment. The regulations are (were?) such that the storage heaters were not allowed to be used in bedrooms.

I am sorry but the only way I can see E7 as working is if you are going to actually spend a lot of your time in the property and are willing to carefully manage. Most people want heat there and then, they want to control it. E7 just does not give this option.

shalis

That would possibly explain why there are no storage heaters in the bedrooms, only wall-mounted convectors.
I agree that nowadays people are so busy that they want heat at the press of a button. In this case shift work is also an issue, which does not lend itself easily to "managing" E7. Phoenix were approached directly by my relative, and I am afraid they were none too helpful regarding likely total costs. While I appreciate that they do not do any of the plumbing type work involved in a new installation, I thought the couldn't care less attitude of the person spoken to left a lot to be desired.
I should add that quite a few others in this complex find E7 absolutely terrible. I will speak to a plumber/heating engineer soon regarding likely cost of installing pipes, radiators etc. over and above the price quoted by Phoenix.
Thank you.

HappyMJ

shalis wrote: »

Donna2588 mentions £160 a quarter for the Winter months with her gas, which is a heck of a lot less than £260/£270 every 2 months in Winter. Equivalent to £390 a quarter. So, in a nutshell, I am still undecided as to the best route to go. As I have already said, I do appreciate input from anyone with some knowledge of this subject.

You are still going to have an electricity bill. What is your bill in summer?

shalis

Would look to be in the region of £70-£100(again every 2 months), so averaging £40'ish a month in Summer. That is mainly shower, lights, boiling kettle etc.

HappyMJ

shalis wrote: »

Would look to be in the region of £70-£100(again every 2 months), so averaging £40'ish a month in Summer. That is mainly shower, lights, boiling kettle etc.

So the bill will come down from £130 a month down to £40 a month then the gas bill will be £70 a month based on the night rate of 6.85p being replaced with a gas rate of 4.3p then taking into account it's 90% efficiency plus 12p per day standing charges. You could save £20 a month over winter. Summer the cost will be the same as gas costs in your area are 6.4p/kWh. Will that be enough to cover the expense of installing gas? Assuming full winter conditions last about 6 months that'll be about £120 per year. And...that assuming the house is no warmer than it is now. 1kWh of heat is the same no matter if it's from a 100% efficient electric heater or a 90% efficient gas boiler. If you turn the temperature up or leave it on longer it will cost more as more kW will be burned.

x12yhp

HappyMJ wrote: »

So the bill will come down from £130 a month down to £40 a month then the gas bill will be £70 a month based on the night rate of 6.85p being replaced with a gas rate of 4.3p then taking into account it's 90% efficiency plus 12p per day standing charges. You could save £20 a month over winter. Summer the cost will be the same as gas costs in your area are 6.4p/kWh. Will that be enough to cover the expense of installing gas? Assuming full winter conditions last about 6 months that'll be about £120 per year. And...that assuming the house is no warmer than it is now. 1kWh of heat is the same no matter if it's from a 100% efficient electric heater or a 90% efficient gas boiler. If you turn the temperature up or leave it on longer it will cost more as more kW will be burned.

Not wishing to be argumentative but you are trying to tell us that E7 is not all that expensive and is quite capable of providing comparable levels of heat to a gas system. Unfortunately you are the first person I have ever heard to say this. This view is so strong that the simple fact that a property has E7 will typically devalue because any new owner will invariably expect to change to a 'better' system.

If you are indeed correct, I would suggest that you put together some comprehensive information on the topic and bring it to the attention of Martin because what you are basically saying is that tens of thousands of people are wasting large amounts of money - Martin would love to jump on this if the gas suppliers are supplying inaccurate information to dupe homeowners.

donnac2558

HappyMJ wrote: »

You are still going to have an electricity bill. What is your bill in summer?

About £60, but that included the famous VAT, on what my actual bill was. My electric bill is usually around the £60 every quarter all year round.

HappyMJ

x12yhp wrote: »

Not wishing to be argumentative but you are trying to tell us that E7 is not all that expensive and is quite capable of providing comparable levels of heat to a gas system. Unfortunately you are the first person I have ever heard to say this. This view is so strong that the simple fact that a property has E7 will typically devalue because any new owner will invariably expect to change to a 'better' system.

If you are indeed correct, I would suggest that you put together some comprehensive information on the topic and bring it to the attention of Martin because what you are basically saying is that tens of thousands of people are wasting large amounts of money - Martin would love to jump on this if the gas suppliers are supplying inaccurate information to dupe homeowners.

Electric heating in a small property the costs are very similar to gas when ALL costs are taken into account. Electric heating has no maintenance costs where gas heating really should be tested for safety every year whether legally required or not. Carbon monoxide poisoning kills many people every year. This test could cost around £70 per year.

A kWh of heating is the same whether it comes from electricity or from gas. If an E7 property is too cold then the radiators are undersized. Replacing with bigger radiators when switching to gas will increase the kWh used it will not decrease. You can't decrease kWh of heat and claim to be warmer.

Electric heating is 100% efficient. Gas is at best 90% efficient if serviced each year and in condensing mode. When heating hot water the boiler is not condensing and is 80% efficient. These figures are published in any boiler manual.

There are more facts but I do understand all the messages that Phoenix and other suppliers distribute to convince customers to switch is misleading. It saves a bit of money on the bills but there are other costs to consider. An electric heater could last a long time There are no moving parts to break. If it were to break then just radiator would require usually just a cheap part to fix to keep it going. Replacement of the whole unit is cheap. If a gas boiler breaks after 15 years it's usually written off and replaced at a much higher cost. My boiler so far this year I've had to replace the gas valve £110. http://www.pdqspares.co.uk/p-48719-gas-valve-glow-worm-kfb-40.aspx The pump £120 http://www.wickes.co.uk/pump-ups-1560-bare/invt/228267/ ...and it still isn't working.....I need more money to continue fixing it so I'm using E7 electric heating with E7 immersion heater for hot water and the bills are almost the same. I'm warm the bedrooms are 18 degrees and the lounge is 21 degrees if I want it to be. I've turned it down as it's so hot.

donnac2558

An electric fire you turn off and its cold very very very quickly.
Gas radiators will still hold the heat for an hour.

When I use my electric water heater, I barely got a bath out of it.

Serving, well mine is done free every year. But friends who have it installed privately not that expensive for a one off each year.

Your really are the only person who seems to like E7, and to be honest not convincing anyone on here its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I never wanted gas in the first place, but after 10 years with it cannot believe how much I rate it.