time off work for hospital appointment

SarEl

noelphobic wrote: »

I would have thought that the legality of this was, at best, a grey area, especially when the employee is not being paid for their time off. It obviously also leads in to issues of confidentiality and how can an employer decide if a request for time off (especially unpaid) is reasonable? Surely any medical treatment is necessary and therefore time off for it is reasonable? An employer is not the best person to decide what medical treatment is and isn't necessary.

I think that there is little point in becoming argumentative with people here. You have been told the legal position - if you do not like the legal position then you must take that up with your MP. Unless you are pregnant, which I doubt, you are not entitled to any time off - paid or unpaid - for a medical appointment. There is no grey area. The employer is not deciding whether it is neveaasry for you to have medical treatment - they are deciding whether to allow you time off for it. Since you will not co-operate and comply with their conditions then they are perfectly entitled to tell you that you may not have time off.

You have been given a number of options here, none of which are either available to you or suited to you. I therefore suggest that you either show the letter to the employer, or you cancel the appointment and reschedule it for a period when you are able to take leave.

System

But as there is not a legal right to have time off during working hours for a hospital appointment then a company can apply reasonable rules to ensure that the time off is valid before allowing it.

Having sight of the appointment letter is one reasonable way to ensure the validity of the request.

arbroath_lass

noelphobic wrote: »

how can an employer decide if a request for time off (especially unpaid) is reasonable? Surely any medical treatment is necessary and therefore time off for it is reasonable? An employer is not the best person to decide what medical treatment is and isn't necessary.

Not all medical treatment IS necessary some procedures are elective. e.g. vasectomy, IVF, cosmetic surgery, removal of benign moles etc.

The employer is merely asking for proof of the appointment. For all they know the OP could be off to an interview or just the sales! So in order to ensure all employees are treated the same proof is asked for.

Having seen colleagues take the mickey with this I quite understand why. And I'm NOT saying the OP is taking the mickey just that some people do.

OP can you ask for another appt and take a holiday at that time?

Tiddlywinks

noelphobic wrote: »

I would have thought that the legality of this was, at best, a grey area, especially when the employee is not being paid for their time off. It obviously also leads in to issues of confidentiality and how can an employer decide if a request for time off (especially unpaid) is reasonable? Surely any medical treatment is necessary and therefore time off for it is reasonable? An employer is not the best person to decide what medical treatment is and isn't necessary.

But without the appointment letter you will not be able to demonstrate that your need to be absent during normal contracted hours is for medical treatment.

It's simple really - you are contracted to attend at certain hours. If you do not attend during these hours then you need prior authorisation (unless it is the first 7 days of self certification of sick leave).

In order to give consideration of your request to be absent during your contracted hours, you manager has asked for a reason for the absence and proof.

If you don't want to disclose to your boss the full details of the trust etc then you need to find another way to prove that you have a medical appointment or take annual leave.

Your manager is allowed to ask for a reason for your request to take time out of your normal contracted hours and ask for proof.

noelphobic

SarEl wrote: »

I think that there is little point in becoming argumentative with people here. You have been told the legal position - if you do not like the legal position then you must take that up with your MP. Unless you are pregnant, which I doubt, you are not entitled to any time off - paid or unpaid - for a medical appointment. There is no grey area. The employer is not deciding whether it is neveaasry for you to have medical treatment - they are deciding whether to allow you time off for it. Since you will not co-operate and comply with their conditions then they are perfectly entitled to tell you that you may not have time off.

You have been given a number of options here, none of which are either available to you or suited to you. I therefore suggest that you either show the letter to the employer, or you cancel the appointment and reschedule it for a period when you are able to take leave.

As I have already stated, I don't think the 'legal position' is black or white here, it is a grey area. Also I'm puzzled about the fact that you seem to know whether or not I'm pregnant - great diagnostic skills, considering the fact that you have never met me and don't even know whether I am male or female.

noelphobic

arbroath_lass wrote: »

OP can you ask for another appt and take a holiday at that time?

It would be a lot easier if I could but appointments are hard to get and days off from work are even harder unfortunately!

Tiddlywinks

noelphobic wrote: »

As I have already stated, I don't think the 'legal position' is black or white here, it is a grey area. Also I'm puzzled about the fact that you seem to know whether or not I'm pregnant - great diagnostic skills, considering the fact that you have never met me and don't even know whether I am male or female.

If you already feel you know the answer, why did you ask the question?

noelphobic

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

If you already feel you know the answer, why did you ask the question?

Because I don't know the answer 100% any more than anyone else who has answered seems to. I really wish I hadn't bothered now.

Some people here have given very useful advice and support, for which I am grateful.

j.e.j.

noelphobic, it's a bit late for this instance but in future I would book the time off as annual leave. That way you do not have to justify anything to potentially nosey co-workers or managers!

I do sympathise. I have been having treatment on the nhs, and what with the cancellations, the appointments running late, and the passing back and forth from department to department (requiring more appointments..) I am sure that if I had been in paid employment I would have been facing a disciplinary. Given that an employer does not have to give time off to an employee needing medical treatment, I honestly don't know how people in paid work manage it.

AP007

noelphobic wrote: »

I understand the point that you're making, but I have worked for this company for over 20 years and I am not asking for paid time off work so actually find it insulting that I am being asked for evidence that I really do have a medical appointment. If I was skiving in some way then I'm not gaining anything because I'm not being paid for the time that I'm absent.

Then call in sick and take a sicky! I mean you would be at the hospital that day if anyone saw you!

Any company would ask for proof in case you aren't just taking a few hours off to go to a job interview, come in late as you are going to be up all night boozing (or something).

If your contract hours are 9-5 for example they expect you to be there unless you call in ill or rushed to the doctors in an emergency (in which case they can write to the doctors to see if you were there if they didn't believe you), or book a holiday.

I think you are blowing it all out of proportion. Law or no law if your work says you can not take the few hours regardless of the letter being showed to them they can say no but they are allowing you to go but would like proof. I would have nothing to hide and like I have said it should all be confidential what you tell your HR team or boss etc.