Woodpellet boiler woes

MonsterMonster

Lostinrates,

You might want to take a look at these installers ... "Energy Werx 2 Ltd". I only found them today whilst I was looking at Ratiotherm's solutions using Oskar thermal stores. Anyhow, looking at their projects page they have done quite a few installations where multiple heat sources have been used.

I've no idea how good they are but its worth a try.

lovesgshp

I hope MonsterMonster that you do not mind me commenting on your post regarding the GSHP options that you have stated. I live in Italy, but work for a geothermal company here, where we mainly install GSHP systems.
For your house @ 240 sq metres, the ground loops would be approx 2 x 112 mtr trenches @1.2 mtrs wide and between 1.2 x 1.5 mtrs deep, depending on the soil type. In each would be placed 2 input and 2 output lines, seperated at 30cm, therefore, you get to the 1000 mtrs approx. The trenches need to be a minimum of 3 mtrs apart to sustain the heating needs of the input lines.
With radiators, there should be no major problems as a oversize is rarely required.
Think you would need a 14Kw or 17 Kw output pump, with a buffer tank. Have a 350 sq mtr plus house here with no insulation as such, working on 2 x 11 kw units, on the original old rads with no problems at all. Ground loops are 2 x 160 mtrs long. DHW tank is 500 ltrs.
HTH

MonsterMonster

lovesgshp wrote: »

I hope MonsterMonster that you do not mind me commenting on your post regarding the GSHP options that you have stated. I live in Italy, but work for a geothermal company here, where we mainly install GSHP systems.
For your house @ 240 sq metres, the ground loops would be approx 2 x 112 mtr trenches @1.2 mtrs wide and between 1.2 x 1.5 mtrs deep, depending on the soil type. In each would be placed 2 input and 2 output lines, seperated at 30cm, therefore, you get to the 1000 mtrs approx. The trenches need to be a minimum of 3 mtrs apart to sustain the heating needs of the input lines.
With radiators, there should be no major problems as a oversize is rarely required.
Think you would need a 14Kw or 17 Kw output pump, with a buffer tank. Have a 350 sq mtr plus house here with no insulation as such, working on 2 x 11 kw units, on the original old rads with no problems at all. Ground loops are 2 x 160 mtrs long. DHW tank is 500 ltrs.
HTH

Not a problem. In fact your response got me looking at GSHP again. In doing so I found a series of rather helpful articles on the website of Kensa Engineering whom have been manufacturing heat pumps for over 14 years. It's given a better insight into calculating pipe length and size and quantity of ground trenches. I might just have enough room except for a few underground electricity and drainage pipes in the way.

One interesting suggestion of theirs for those with traditional boiler and rads is to run their boiler temperature at around lowest setting, 50 degrees C, during the colder period and see if the property is comfortable. This tests your property insulation performance and using radiators at low temperature water supply flow similar to that of heat pumps. Well I started this yesterday and so far the house is fine. In fact with the boiler set at 3/4 of max (whatever temp that is) the house was sweltering even though we set our room stat at 19 degrees C. It was noticed that DHW is no longer scalding hot which is good but the power shower needs to be run at higher flow.

I'm sure this is not an exact test but it seems a worthwhile one in doing so.

With radiators and bearing in mind lower temperature flow, should a heat pump heating system be set to run all day as opposed to how we use traditional oil/gas boilers at say two hours in morning and five hours at night?

lovesgshp

MonsterMonster wrote: »

Not a problem. In fact your response got me looking at GSHP again. In doing so I found a series of rather helpful articles on the website of Kensa Engineering whom have been manufacturing heat pumps for over 14 years. It's given a better insight into calculating pipe length and size and quantity of ground trenches. I might just have enough room except for a few underground electricity and drainage pipes in the way.
Do not know the Kensa system, but a look at some of the tech data was interesting. For a 300 sq mtr house, 3 x 50mtr slinkys seemed low, but as we do not use slinkys, then I cannot comment.

One interesting suggestion of theirs for those with traditional boiler and rads is to run their boiler temperature at around lowest setting, 50 degrees C, during the colder period and see if the property is comfortable. This tests your property insulation performance and using radiators at low temperature water supply flow similar to that of heat pumps. Well I started this yesterday and so far the house is fine. In fact with the boiler set at 3/4 of max (whatever temp that is) the house was sweltering even though we set our room stat at 19 degrees C. It was noticed that DHW is no longer scalding hot which is good but the power shower needs to be run at higher flow.
The max 55C of the system seems low, considering many units are now giving 65c. I did not like the -10c operating design temperature without a electrical backup available on the heating side, as if the compressors cannot cope at lower temperatures, there is no additional help for them, or if they fail, you cannot switch to immersion help.
With the DHW, according to their details, it will only reheat again after 2 hours, which is strange, although that has a immersion heater in the tank, which is normally only on ASHP systems.

I'm sure this is not an exact test but it seems a worthwhile one in doing so.

With radiators and bearing in mind lower temperature flow, should a heat pump heating system be set to run all day as opposed to how we use traditional oil/gas boilers at say two hours in morning and five hours at night?

Heat pumps are meant to be operated 24/7, with setbacks on timers, or outside air temp sensors working in conjunction with internal sensors. Never more than a 4C reduction on return flow temp to rads, or 1-1.5C on underfloor. Not on room thermostat settings, although that is obviously up to you.
HTH

lostinrates

Loves gshp.....I know you work in Italy, are you Italian yourself?

lovesgshp

lostinrates wrote: »

Loves gshp.....I know you work in Italy, are you Italian yourself?

No, I am English, so usually deal with the enquiries for the Expats here who are considering geothermal systems.
The company is Italian though.

lostinrates

lovesgshp wrote: »

No, I am English, so usually deal with the enquiries for the Expats here who are considering geothermal systems.
The company is Italian though.

Ah, excuse the question, you see, I think DH (toscano) would feel easier before we make any gshp decision reading some of this thread him self and reading some stuff in Italian installations again.

lovesgshp

lostinrates wrote: »

Ah, excuse the question, you see, I think DH (toscano) would feel easier before we make any gshp decision reading some of this thread him self and reading some stuff in Italian installations again.

No problem, always pleased to give any help that I can. Sorry that it got a bit off tangent to the original post.

lostinrates

lovesgshp wrote: »

No problem, always pleased to give any help that I can. Sorry that it got a bit off tangent to the original post.

Its ok.

If it helps other people make decisions that's what its about on Mse. . I'm not a thread purist


Our litigator advised us today not to say the name of the company till the time for the payment from the company has passed. (Whether or not its paid). So I cannot say this week after all. I'm honestly not keeping it on a knife edge on purpose.

lostinrates

The heating providers are now saying they want to Appeal, having missed all the deadlines.

Glad I didn't give the names now!

Oh well, while I wish it were over, if it goes to court rather than the summary judgement we stand to be awarded a lot more recompense in damages (because of the way we filed...in fat, we thought that's would encourage them to deal quickly if we stood a loss of damages), If it goes to court on appeal will will obviously peruse all damages which sadly out cost the heating system.