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Tube Drivers Again.
Comments
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The alternative that some people seem to prefer is that employers ride roughshod over their staffs who doff their caps and have no means of defending themselves but resigning. Do you favour that model?
Employment legislation is tough these days. Favours and protects the employee. So employers have to be very careful. After resigning there is still the option for the employee to make a case for constructive dismissal.
Plenty of fee free solicitors around who'll take a case like this on. As the cost to a Company is immense. Obtaining an of tribunal settlement isn't uncommon. Given that many employers fail to follow the correct procedures.
The UK unions almost appear outdated and out of touch with the global world we live in now.
I prefer the approach of Japanese companies. More socially and community inclusive. Better for both the employee and the business.0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »My partner is an on call manager for a hospital between Christmas Day and Boxing Day. She'll get a £44 allowance for a 12 hour shift between 7pm and 7 am. This is on top of her normal weekly hours. Never does she complain. It's accepted as part of the job.
So to me. Its an attitude towards others. Why have the tube drivers chosen Boxing Day for the 3rd year running. Maximum inconvenience to the general public.
My dearly beloved will also be working Christmas afternoon and evening and has taken annual leave just to have a few days afterwards. negligible premium it is just the way the job has moved.
I wouldn't have thought boxing day was the worst day they could choose for the public themselves. Retailers may not be happy.
I wonder what people think they should be paid? Lots of posters have mentioned paramedics as a comparable role, perhaps they are underpaid?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
I don't think tube drivers should have a basic of twice the national average so I'd suggest a combination of tube drivers being overpaid and paramedics (and a whole bunch of other front line services) underpaid.Thinking critically since 1996....0
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somethingcorporate wrote: »I don't think tube drivers should have a basic of twice the national average so I'd suggest a combination of tube drivers being overpaid and paramedics (and a whole bunch of other front line services) underpaid.
What is the London Average Wage?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »What is the London Average Wage?
Which will be weighted upwards by the concentration of high earners in the City of London .0 -
I was at an LUL conference before the Olympics, where Mike
Brown (LU Managing Director) was addressing representatives from the various Train Operators unions (ASLEF and RMT mainly). He has given them the guarantee that any driver in a driving job now, will be able to see out their career in that job.
From an engineering perspective, there are lines which are able to drive themselves now, however, the station/train interfaces, mechanical and electrical diagnostics, and safety failsafes are not in place for full driverless running. This will take decades to retrofit in its entirety (it's not as simple as installing from scratch, a la the DLR), and the only other option would be to shut down one entire line at a time for however long it takes to fully retrofit these systems. I think we all know this won't be done.
The impression I get is that drivers are here for the forseeable, but as the trains become closer and closer to being fully driverless over the long term future they will be replaced by lower paid train 'attendants' before finally being phased out god knows when, after all the retrofits I mentioned are done.0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »Which will be weighted upwards by the concentration of high earners in the City of London .
Fair enough it is still the average which drives everything else up and attract bees to the honeypot or wasps to the rotting apple.."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Fair enough it is still the average which drives everything else up and attract bees to the honeypot or wasps to the rotting apple..
Median wage in 2011 for London is £27.5k from here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/nov/24/wages-britain-ashe-mapped
Should tube drivers earn well over twice this including the perks and a final salary pension?Thinking critically since 1996....0 -
somethingcorporate wrote: »Median wage in 2011 for London is £27.5k from here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/nov/24/wages-britain-ashe-mapped
Should tube drivers earn well over twice this including the perks and a final salary pension?
I don't know.
The average pay is £83K.
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/citys-average-pay-leaps-12-to-83000-6370229.html
It depends how far up that curve you would class them as being, in terms of skills, ability, knowledge, expertise.
Perhaps another question is whether the high earners that skew the average are worth it?
I doubt the current level of pay has been achieved solely as a result of Union pressure. The employer must also have had a hand in agreeing what they felt was a reasonable level of pay."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »I'm sure there are many who would perform the job for less.
True, but I think the wages are relatively high because it is shift work. I agree that some professions are underpaid, like nurses and carers in old people's homes, it shows as a society who is valued and who is not.:(I was at an LUL conference before the Olympics, where Mike
Brown (LU Managing Director) was addressing representatives from the various Train Operators unions (ASLEF and RMT mainly). He has given them the guarantee that any driver in a driving job now, will be able to see out their career in that job.
From an engineering perspective, there are lines which are able to drive themselves now, however, the station/train interfaces, mechanical and electrical diagnostics, and safety failsafes are not in place for full driverless running. This will take decades to retrofit in its entirety (it's not as simple as installing from scratch, a la the DLR), and the only other option would be to shut down one entire line at a time for however long it takes to fully retrofit these systems. I think we all know this won't be done.
The impression I get is that drivers are here for the forseeable, but as the trains become closer and closer to being fully driverless over the long term future they will be replaced by lower paid train 'attendants' before finally being phased out god knows when, after all the retrofits I mentioned are done.
I've heard the same, I think it will be a long process before the trains can be without drivers.
I think it might save money in the long run to get rid of train drivers but as you say there might be other jobs created as the public generally want station staff available so if it is difficult to see if it is economical overall.0
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