Landlord failed to provide contract on renewal date

makoto

My LL and his managing agent are very slow with communications, from repairs to important paperwork.

They have failed to bring forward a memorandum for signing on our tenancy renewal date, albeit this was agreed via phone and email.

Since we have not signed anything yet and the term has lapsed, I am trying to understand my legal position. Have we technically entered a periodic tenancy between us? (2 month notices from either party could terminate the tenancy)

They will most likely present something for signing at a later date, the question is,

Do I sign with the renewal date or with overdue date?

If I sign does this repeal the fact we have entered into a periodic tenancy?

Thanks

arbrighton

Yes, you are now in an SPT and you would only have to give 1 month notice (aligned with rental period) but LL have to do 2.
You are under no obligation to sign another AST but if you do, yes, you would no longer be in an SPT

makoto

As expected the LL's agent has come forward with a renewal AST. In fact it is the first time in a tenancy renewal that I have received the entire contract for signing again (I usually receive a memorandum).

And as expected they have entered the old renewal date on it. Can I ask them to modify to present date?

Kynthia

I'm not 100% on this but there are two options:
1. you cannot be asked to backdate a contract and it should begin from when you sign it.
2. an AST doesn't need to be in writing and you had already verbally agreed the renewal and had a verbal contract. You are now just putting the verbal contract into writing but it had already begun.
So I guess you can decide which it is.

G_M

makoto wrote: »

As expected the LL's agent has come forward with a renewal AST. In fact it is the first time in a tenancy renewal that I have received the entire contract for signing again (I usually receive a memorandum).

And as expected they have entered the old renewal date on it. Can I ask them to modify to present date?

You cannot legally backdate a contract.

Since you are now already on a STP (see link below), the new tenancy agreement should be dated from when you sign it (or later). That is, IF you want to sign at all. Now read:

Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)

makoto

G_M wrote: »

You cannot legally backdate a contract.

Since you are now already on a STP (see link below), the new tenancy agreement should be dated from when you sign it (or later). That is, IF you want to sign at all. Now read:

Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)

The situation is that the LL had failed to do minor/major repairs for over 3 months. Their agent sent a cheeky email for renewal + rent increase one month before expiry, while I was still waiting for LL approval to the agent to carry out those repairs. Nothing wrong from my end, just a totally incompetent agent and an extremely slow LL (all rents always paid on time).

At that point I had the only opportunity to have them do something about it, so I told them we can only sign a renewal when they have carried out the repairs they ought to as per the AST. They finally arranged the repairs but the builder could only come in 2 days after the AST expiry date. They didn't seem to have taken this seriously but still not my problem since they had known about the repairs 4 months before that time. Yet as soon as the repairs were done they took forever to supply the renewal of the AST.

I am aware of the STP but the confusing bit is now going back into an AST contract (which I don't have to do). You may ask why, well I need the security of a fixed term for various reasons, especially with such a slow LL.

According to the information I gather that this is not a renewal anymore but a "new" contract. By signing with the current date I can "move" the break clause (mid-term) to one month later, since the new contract will have to be dated a month later, which also suits me.

NOTE: I have already paid with the increased rent for this month having assumed at the time they would provide an AST renewal right after the repairs. So this is where it gets more confusing for me in terms of what I should be paying.

If they don't accept to amend the dates we can carry on with the SPT but then the LL may easily choose to kick me out with 2 months notice

makoto

The agent has posted me a new contract which is exactly the same as the one originally signed.

Looks like a total waste of paper and I cannot see the point. I suspect they are receiving a payment from the LL for making another contract arrangement.

I need some input on ASTs. The contract has two parts for signing and shows the old renewal date.

part 1. LL/tenant details with new rent amount etc, followed by the terms - at the end there is a page with signature fields for witnesses/LL/tenant.

part 2. two more pages at the end, again the new rent details, property address etc followed by a clause about understanding the Housing Act blah blah (this looks redundant), and yet another page with signature fields for LL/tenant but without a witness field.

The agent had signed pt2 only, on behalf of LL and asked me to sign and return one copy. I signed it but with the present date and returned. Then the agent returned the contract back asking me to sign the page in pt1 with the witness entry and also ask for a witness to sign too.

That page is still not signed by the agent/LL or a witness from their behalf.

What is all this jiberish and time wasting rubbish? Do we really need to re-do this witness stuff and sign so many pages?

Should I tread as an entirely new contract or a renewal?

armour

Are you being charged for this contract renewal?

G_M

1) how long is this contract for? 6 months? 12?
2) is there a break clause?
3) do you want to the security of being be tied in for whatever period it is (eg 6 months, or 12 with/without break clause?
4) do you prefer flexibility to leave when you want?
5) is the start date back-dated as before?
6) are you being charged for this contract?

Whether you sign or not, by aying the new rent you have already accepted it (the rent, not the contract).

newsgroup_monkey

armour wrote: »

Are you being charged for this contract renewal?

Knowing LAs, I think the answer is almost certainly yes.

My LA did the naughty-naughty on our first renewal - they had us sign their "fees" document when we first signed up but mentioned nothing on renewal.

After we renewed, we "suddenly" got a letter in the post telling us that we had failed to make the renewal payment on time and that in the future, they would charge us £25 for late payment.

makoto

G_M wrote: »

1) how long is this contract for? 6 months? 12?
2) is there a break clause?
3) do you want to the security of being be tied in for whatever period it is (eg 6 months, or 12 with/without break clause?
4) do you prefer flexibility to leave when you want?
5) is the start date back-dated as before?
6) are you being charged for this contract?

Whether you sign or not, by aying the new rent you have already accepted it (the rent, not the contract).

1,2) 12 months with a 6 month break clause
3) Yes, although this period is now shorter due to the delay and doesn't change things much compared to an SPT
4) as in (3)
5) The "Term" is back dated to when we should originally sign it for renewal (the contract itself has a field for adding the signing date)
6) I am not being charged for the contract (afaik), I would certainly not sign it if I was.

Regardless of the above I don't think the LL is willing to end the tenancy at any point, they are receiving the rent and that is all they care about.

I just don't like the fussiness of the renewal i.e how many pages do I really need to sign/witness (already did a contract a year ago) and want to understand the legal typicalities and if it is really necessary.

Thanks