The Issue of Bill Being Overcharged and Undercharged

Gnid

Yes, no monthly payment plan for credit card. Just using that as an example of direct debit

Thanks! Ok, if I sign up to direct debit, I won't go on to sign weird monthly payment plan that seems to be unique to utility companies.

When you say:

"Yes of course. If they actually read the meters and charged you for what you used there would be no cause for complaint. The problem is that the companies do none of this. They don't even answer their phones if the TV reports are to be believed"

Can we (instead of the company) give them the meter readings? If we give the readings to them, they don't need to waste time coming out and reading the meter all the time. If we give meter readings, are you saying the utility company don't believe us and need themselves to read the meter reading?

Generally (my thinking only) lots of the confusion comes from the fact that seller don't really understand the product and the buyer trust the seller too much (because the seller acts friendly and nice (but with no knowledge about anything))..it seems to be a trend for lots of things I encounter.

Only people on here and other places/forums are very savy and get a real response.

Squire_Fulwood

You can give them meter readings. If you have not signed up for a monthly plan or a direct debit they will issue an amended bill. If you have signed up for a direct debit and a monthly plan then it pays them to take no notice of your meter readings. If you have signed up for a monthly plan then you have agreed that they should only take notice of one reading a year anyway.

It's not really a question of not believing what you say when you give them a meter reading. Usually they do believe you. If they thought you were cheating they would send a surprise meter reader to check up.

You are incorrect. The seller understands the product but they are cost cutting and even worse. They find that if they are careless and mostly make mistakes in their favour then they have no incentive to put matters right.

Cardew

With Credit Cards it is a Continuous Credit Authority that you give them. Sky for instance will operate that system.

It is no problem for a company to bill you the exact amount monthly when they know exactly how much your bill will be - telephones, Sky, Council Tax etc.

The difference is that Utility companies clearly(at the moment**) don't know what your bill will be as they cannot read the meter monthly; also most people want their expenditure spread evenly over the year.

** There are experiments for the meter readings to be monitored remotely by the Utility companies and thus enable exact bills to be sent each month. I have property in the USA and my electricity meter is 'interrogated' remotely and an exact bill is available on-line the next day(it gives total, average per day, comparison with last year etc)

With unmetered Water bills(based on an unchanging Rateable Value) the water companies can calculate to a penny your annual bill and the DD sum is set so it exactly covers the annual bill.

Gnid

Cardew, thanks but i guess i was saying, putting aside people wanting to spread their expenditure evenly over the year, wouldn't the solution to the problem that they can't remotely know the exact reading is to give it to them?

isn't that the solution?

Cardew

Gnid wrote: »

Cardew, thanks but i guess i was saying, putting aside people wanting to spread their expenditure evenly over the year, wouldn't the solution to the problem that they can't remotely know the exact reading is to give it to them?

isn't that the solution?

It would be a solution and for some internet accounts that is exactly what happens; with the companies only checking occasionally.

However people will forget, go on holiday, can’t read the meter(some are quite inaccessible) make mistakes, lie to affect payment etc etc. Also many would refuse point blank to undertake that chore.

Cardew

Gnid wrote: »

Cardew, thanks but i guess i was saying, putting aside people wanting to spread their expenditure evenly over the year, wouldn't the solution to the problem that they can't remotely know the exact reading is to give it to them?

isn't that the solution?

It would be a solution and for some internet accounts that is exactly what happens; with the companies only checking occasionally.

However people will forget, go on holiday, can’t read the meter(some are quite inaccessible) make mistakes, lie to affect payment etc etc. Also many would refuse point blank to undertake that chore.

IMO it really isn't a big problem at all.

A Direct Debit is an agreement between 2 parties to pay £x per month. Even with no history it will become apparent, the first time a meter reading is taken, if there is an over/under payment and an adjustment can be made. It really is not a big deal if there is a short term debit or credit balance as the loss/gain in interest is very small.

Squire_Fulwood

Cardew wrote: »

A Direct Debit is an agreement between 2 parties to pay £x per month. Even with no history it will become apparent, the first time a meter reading is taken, if there is an over/under payment and an adjustment can be made. It really is not a big deal if there is a short term debit or credit balance as the loss/gain in interest is very small.

I must quibble there. There is nothing that says a direct debit is for a fixed amount every month. The one with my phone company isn't

However, if I entered into an agreement about a monthly plan then it would very likely be a fixed amount each month.

olly300

Cardew wrote: »

A Direct Debit is an agreement between 2 parties to pay £x per month. Even with no history it will become apparent, the first time a meter reading is taken, if there is an over/under payment and an adjustment can be made. It really is not a big deal if there is a short term debit or credit balance as the loss/gain in interest is very small.

Correct.

And the intermediatories for Direct Debits are the banks. So if something goes wrong or you think a company is taking money they shouldn't have then you contact your bank and tell them not to pay or to refund the money in writing. However the other party can and will chase you.

And anyone using a variable Direct Debit has to be given a minimum 10 working days notice of the amount. This is why for mobile phone bills you pay the standing charge (tariff charges) in advance but pay for the calls in arrears.

Unfortunately other companies seem to
1. rely on second class post to send bills out
2. print them one day and post them the next
so you actually only get 5 days notice or in the case of BT your bill is due as soon as it arrives

I don't pay my utilities- gas and electricity- by Direct Debit because:
1. I have had enough hassle with phone companies over normal charges
2. I use telephone/online banking to pay bills. It needs more organisation but it's not hard. (Notice board in front of computer)
3. My bill amounts vary widely and all my estimated bills are completely over estimated normally by a minimum of £50. I only ever have had one bill that was underestimated in the past 2 years and that was by £3.

MarkyMarkD

Squire_Fulwood wrote: »

You can give them meter readings. If you have not signed up for a monthly plan or a direct debit they will issue an amended bill. If you have signed up for a direct debit and a monthly plan then it pays them to take no notice of your meter readings. If you have signed up for a monthly plan then you have agreed that they should only take notice of one reading a year anyway.

It's not really a question of not believing what you say when you give them a meter reading. Usually they do believe you. If they thought you were cheating they would send a surprise meter reader to check up.

You are incorrect. The seller understands the product but they are cost cutting and even worse. They find that if they are careless and mostly make mistakes in their favour then they have no incentive to put matters right.

You do have a jaundiced view of budget plans, Squire.

Companies DO take notice of interim meter readings. If your consumption is way out of line with what they expect, under or (particularly) over, they will tell you that they may need to increase your monthly payments. This is the right thing to do to reduce the risk of a large reconciliation balance at the end of the year.

And budgeting by paying fixed monthly amounts is great for most people. It helps them to know their outgoings won't change.

And if you reach the end of the year owing money, you get to spread that debt over the next year - which is yet more interest free credit.

The only reason people end up in credit is because they agree to excessively high DD amounts. You don't need to do that - if you know your consumption, you can calculate what you should pay and tell them that's what you want to pay.

Squire_Fulwood

I suppose the actual truth is that I mistrust utility companies. I have been in dispute with one or the other of them for most of my adult life including the one who kept sending me red bills for two years even though I had paid the bills as they were received. The Gas Consumers Council got involved in that one.

I repeat, it's not a jaundiced view of budget plans but of the companies operating them. I feel that if I stay with the more traditional billing arrangements then I can take the option of not paying the bill until we agree it. I certainly would not let them take the money directly given the experiences I have had with them.

Thinking back, it would have been a bit of a nightmare if I had let that company into my bank account. Every time I paid a bill they then sent me a red bill and after a time I got a personal debt chaser phoning me at home telling me I had not paid them.

Finally I got one of the best written apologies ever and I vowed never to let them directly debit my account.