Not 'doing' Santa

Person_one

Nicki wrote: »

So the bit you hated about the whole Santa tradition is the bit that you want your own child to experience for the whole of her childhood, without even getting the pleasure of a few years where she does believe and is entranced

Or is it your intention to tell her that she doesn't have to keep the secret from other children she will meet socially and in school, and therefore take the choice of preserving the Santa tradition away from every other family your child comes into contact with over the Christmas period (including those who have no choice about this because they attend the same school/Brownies/Sports Club, etc?

Very good points there.

balletshoes

Nan63 wrote: »

Is it just me that finds that so sad? The thought of a little 5 year old giving up on Santa?

I am guilty of perpetuating the Santa myth to my grandchildren and will long continue to do so. I've just had a quick straw poll round my office and not one person even remembers when they stopped believing in Santa, let alone being emotionally scarred by it.

I believe!

oh I remember vividly when I found out there was no Santa - I woke up on Christmas Eve to the sound of my mum and dad arguing over which pressie was going into which santa sack! However, I was 9 or 10 at that point, and my cousin had tried to tell me earlier in the year that Santa was really your parents - I told her that was a complete and utter lie and I wasn't speaking to her ever again :rotfl:.

I'm the oldest of 4, so I pretended for my sisters and then my brother for years. And now we pretend for my daughter and my nieces (even though the older 2 know there is no santa now).

Soubrette

I never did the Father Christmas thing with my own two daughters and they appear to have turned out ok. We have lots of christmas traditions and Father Christmas was part of it as a lovely story, just like the Gruffalo or talking hares (tell me how much I love you).

Some of the reasons I decided to do this were a couple of friends' experiences before I became pregnant. One told me how she dreaded her daughter going to senior school because she still believed in Father Christmas. Another told me how her daughter kept asking for expensive presents and kept saying it was Father Christmas who was paying so why did her mum keep saying she couldn't have it. When my daughter was small I had a devout friend who told me how devastated her husband had been (also a devout christian) when his parents told him Father Christmas did not exist. She also felt there were uncomfortable parallels between God and Father Christmas and so it would undermine their talking about their faith.

I felt pleased we chose these path when at pre-school a parent pretended he could see Father Christmas disappear into the distance on his sledge, cue 1/4 of the children in floods of tears. Also listening to the contortions of the parents desperately trying to keep the magic alive as their children grew older.

However, there were a couple of downsides. One of my daughters always wanted to tell her friends so for a couple of years I had to explain how different parents tell their children different things and we have to respect this.

The other daughter found if very hard to believe that something didn't exist when everyone else said it did (I mean exist in a physical sense, we talked about Father Christmas existing in people's imaginations and in stories). That was quite difficult for her to cope with for a couple of years.

Of course we have also had to deal with people accusing us of practically child abuse by denying the 'magic of christmas'. Well that may be their magic but I'm confident that the message I've given them, Christmas is about family, friends and rememberance and New Year is about looking forward, is equally magical . It is my personal opinion based on observation that it's adults rather than the children that get the most pleasure in pretending there is an actual Father Christmas.

In fact, my daughters are nearly grown up now and thinking about Christmas's past along with our traditions is making me smile and look forward to enjoying the next few christmas's that I'm likely to have with just them

seven-day-weekend

Soubrette wrote: »

I never did the Father Christmas thing with my own two daughters and they appear to have turned out ok. We have lots of christmas traditions and Father Christmas was part of it as a lovely story, just like the Gruffalo or talking hares (tell me how much I love you).

Some of the reasons I decided to do this were a couple of friends' experiences before I became pregnant. One told me how she dreaded her daughter going to senior school because she still believed in Father Christmas. Another told me how her daughter kept asking for expensive presents and kept saying it was Father Christmas who was paying so why did her mum keep saying she couldn't have it. When my daughter was small I had a devout friend who told me how devastated her husband had been (also a devout christian) when his parents told him Father Christmas did not exist. She also felt there were uncomfortable parallels between God and Father Christmas and so it would undermine their talking about their faith.

I felt pleased we chose these path when at pre-school a parent pretended he could see Father Christmas disappear into the distance on his sledge, cue 1/4 of the children in floods of tears. Also listening to the contortions of the parents desperately trying to keep the magic alive as their children grew older.

However, there were a couple of downsides. One of my daughters always wanted to tell her friends so for a couple of years I had to explain how different parents tell their children different things and we have to respect this.

The other daughter found if very hard to believe that something didn't exist when everyone else said it did (I mean exist in a physical sense, we talked about Father Christmas existing in people's imaginations and in stories). That was quite difficult for her to cope with for a couple of years.

Of course we have also had to deal with people accusing us of practically child abuse by denying the 'magic of christmas'. Well that may be their magic but I'm confident that the message I've given them, Christmas is about family, friends and rememberance and New Year is about looking forward, is equally magical . It is my personal opinion based on observation that it's adults rather than the children that get the most pleasure in pretending there is an actual Father Christmas.

In fact, my daughters are nearly grown up now and thinking about Christmas's past along with our traditions is making me smile and look forward to enjoying the next few christmas's that I'm likely to have with just them

Post quoted in full as it is worthy of being said twice

notanewuser

Nicki wrote: »

So the bit you hated about the whole Santa tradition is the bit that you want your own child to experience for the whole of her childhood, without even getting the pleasure of a few years where she does believe and is entranced

Or is it your intention to tell her that she doesn't have to keep the secret from other children she will meet socially and in school, and therefore take the choice of preserving the Santa tradition away from every other family your child comes into contact with over the Christmas period (including those who have no choice about this because they attend the same school/Brownies/Sports Club, etc?

You still don't seem to get it. We aren't going to tell her Santa doesn't exist. If she wants to believe then she can.

How do your children handle things they choose not to believe in? I don't expect her to tell Muslim children "there's no such thing as Allah", so why would I expect her to say there's no such thing as Santa if she's been brought up to understand that some people do believe?

I don't eat meat, but I don't force my viewpoint on her. Her great grandparents "bless" her when she sneezes - I don't expect her to throw it back in their faces.

JimmyTheWig

notanewuser wrote: »

You still don't seem to get it. We aren't going to tell her Santa doesn't exist. If she wants to believe then she can.

So this time next year she has conversation with her friends and believes in Father Christmas. She comes home. "What did Father Christmas get me last year, Mummy?"
Are you going to lie?
Or are you going to have her believe that Father Christmas exists but didn't bring her anything?
Or what?

Nicki

notanewuser wrote: »

You still don't seem to get it. We aren't going to tell her Santa doesn't exist. If she wants to believe then she can.

notanewuser wrote: »

DD turned 2 in October. DH and I don't intend to ever do the Santa thing with her. We are atheists and intend to handle it in the same was as religion, i.e. it's something others believe, which is fine.

Yes I clearly have misunderstood :cool:

You are not going to ever "do the santa thing" with her but if she wants to believe in it, then you aren't going to disillusion her. So how is this going to work exactly when she is 4 and has started school?

Its the run up to Christmas, and all her friends are discussing Santa and what he will bring. You aren't going to tell her he doesn't exist but also aren't doing the Santa thing. So what? She wakes up on Christmas morning all excited and there is nothing there for her. So then what are you going to say to your upset child, if not that he doesn't exist? That if she wants to believe in him that's fine, but he doesn't come to her house? Which of the styles of parenting we have had discussed here does that fit into?

If you aren't going "to do the Santa thing" then the ONLY non abusive way to do this IMO is to tell your child beforehand that there is no Santa. Letting her believe that there is, but not delivering for her is just plain sadistic.

notanewuser

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

So this time next year she has conversation with her friends and believes in Father Christmas. She comes home. "What did Father Christmas get me last year, Mummy?"
Are you going to lie?
Or are you going to have her believe that Father Christmas exists but didn't bring her anything?
Or what?

Well, she doesn't go to nursery and won't start school until January 2014 at the earliest. Several of her immediate peers and close friends kids' parents don't actively push santa on their kids, so it's unlikely to be an issue next year, and by the following year I'd expect her belief (or not) to be pretty evident.

notanewuser

Nicki wrote: »

Yes I clearly have misunderstood :cool:

You are not going to ever "do the santa thing" with her but if she wants to believe in it, then you aren't going to disillusion her. So how is this going to work exactly when she is 4 and has started school?

Its the run up to Christmas, and all her friends are discussing Santa and what he will bring. You aren't going to tell her he doesn't exist but also aren't doing the Santa thing. So what? She wakes up on Christmas morning all excited and there is nothing there for her. So then what are you going to say to your upset child, if not that he doesn't exist? That if she wants to believe in him that's fine, but he doesn't come to her house? Which of the styles of parenting we have had discussed here does that fit into?

If you aren't going "to do the Santa thing" then the ONLY non abusive way to do this IMO is to tell your child beforehand that there is no Santa. Letting her believe that there is, but not delivering for her is just plain sadistic.

I said that we don't intend to do santa.

I don't intend to work formally until my child is in school, but that might change.

I don't intend to fall over in the snow in January, but that might change.

I don't intend to eat meat again, but at some point that might change.


If, and it's a big if, DD decides that she's a believer, then we'll have to re-evaluate our intentions, won't we?! Just like if she decides she wants to go to church, or join the moonies.

I'll have to call this one "fluid parenting" - adapting to the situation.

Bennifred

Person_one wrote: »

I must admit, I'm not a fan of hearing 'Santa' in this country. Not because I think its worse or not as valid, just because I think 'Father Christmas' is a really nice name for the character and I'd hate to see it disappear completely.

We adopt so much American culture without even noticing, its nice to keep a bit of what makes us different.

Father Christmas in this house, too! :beer: