The Polls - Labour Lead At 14 - Is It The Economy?

StevieJ

ILW wrote: »

Can people not see that growth based purely on borrowing is of no use to anybody in the longer term. Just look at Browns "miracle" that was not much more than borrowing money to hire hoards of extra civil servants who produced nothing for the country.

Then again borrowing as a % of gdp was lower when he vacated the chancellorship than when he took over

StevieJ

kabayiri wrote: »

Personally I think the trend over recent decades has been to treat the electorate as consumers. Political views are marketed to target groups; the 1997 election being a notable success in this by Labour.

So is it any surprise that consumers are seen as acting in obvious self interest? Not to me.

I thought that self interest was ingrained in the 'laws' of economics?

DecentLivingWage

homelessskilledworker wrote: »

Mmmmm, there is a lot that can happen and a lot that will probably happen before the next election, and by no means do Labour have it in the bag.
The polls are a waste of time right now, the fickle voter is doing what he always does, he/she just wants the present government to know how upset they are so they threaten to run off with the other man/woman.

I also suspect that UKIP will end up doing a deal the Tories as long as they get their referendum. I really cannot see the two Ed's geting into power, I can see the country doing a Kinnock at the last minute and bottling it. A part of me wants to see these two muppets get into power and then we will see how they are all things to all men, if the unions never behaved like a neglected wife who cannot get her own way the two Ed's would be finding out the hard way that there is no magical credit card like the one Tony(slimey) Blair and Gordon Brown had.

My personal preference would be to see UKIP pressure the Tories into a vote on Europe(which I will be part of the blackmailing votes), and then see someone solid like David Davies turf David Cameron out. This Country still needs some tough love, but it has to be done fairly. I have no doubts in my mind that anyone in the UK running their own business and who do their books, if they decide they have no intention paying more in tax then they were pre 2007 then they won't be. But the poor working population on the average wage are being stuffed more as the months go by bosses who give them no choice while they in many cases avoid what is due.

We shall see

We certainly shall!

(The Millibands are intellectual giants compared to thin media spivs like Cameron & OsBean (EdM is no kinnock lol - he ain't gonna go ar-e over t-t in front of the Sun newspaper while 'jumping waves' with wifey! ) I'm genuinely surprised on here at how out of the polling loop everyone is.. no govt has ever come back from the pits of 29% in time for an election that's now only 1 yr away from campaign launch! Also with an entire entire economy to turn! Come on guys - wise up (No hard felings, it's gonna be fun for us all to debate as we go along!)

PS Breaking,,,,, there's gonna be some shocking and brave news about Ed v shortly! About to throw his newly found high profile and respect and career on the line for a principle...... protecting us from Camerons incompetence and cruelty towards those in work supported by benefits, also the vulnerable - watch The Guardian !then come back and tell us what you think of the Do or Die !

Moby

jonewer wrote: »

Here's the problem.

We currently spend about £49bn a year on interest payments.

Thats more than we spend on defence.

Its considerably more than we spend on law and order.

Its twice what we spend on transport.

Its about 60% of what we spend on education.

Its about the same amount of tax as collected from fuel duties and VAT, and VED.

Its twice the revenue collected from council tax.

Its equal to the revenue collected from council tax and business rates combined.

Its roughly equal to the corporation tax take

Its roughly equal to excise duties

Its half the National insurance take

Its half the VAT take

Its roughly a third of the income tax take.

Now, this is getting worse every month. Every month the government borrows (on average) another £10bn.

The only reason this country is still solvent is because the bond markets like us.

The moment the yields on UK sovereign debt start to rise beyond 3% then its game over for us.

Thatchers corner shop economics again. When will they learn...life is not a balance sheet I'm afraid!
I have this picture in my head of Tories everywhere going round screaming at the top of their voices....the debt....the ...debt....the debt.
Its also so sad that in a so called 'democracy' we live in thrall to the interests of the bankers and bond markets. I just wish more people would get a backbone and stand up to these barrow boy types in their polyester stripey shirts...who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing!It doesn't have to be like this!

Moby

DecentLivingWage wrote: »

We certainly shall!

(The Millibands are intellectual giants compared to thin media spivs like Cameron & OsBean (EdM is no kinnock lol - he ain't gonna go ar-e over t-t in front of the Sun newspaper while 'jumping waves' with wifey! ) I'm genuinely surprised on here at how out of the polling loop everyone is.. no govt has ever come back from the pits of 29% in time for an election that's now only 1 yr away from campaign launch! Also with an entire entire economy to turn! Come on guys - wise up (No hard felings, it's gonna be fun for us all to debate as we go along!)

PS Breaking,,,,, there's gonna be some shocking and brave news about Ed v shortly! About to throw his newly found high profile and respect and career on the line for a principle...... protecting us from Camerons incompetence and cruelty towards those in work supported by benefits, also the vulnerable - watch The Guardian !then come back and tell us what you think of the Do or Die !

Kinnock was smeared badly by the Sun and the consequence was five years of John Major, Tory arguments about Europe, Black Wednesday...when this country's tax payers lost 3.3 billion in one day due to the short selling of sterling. Blair lived in the real world and knew he had to kow tow to the Murdoch scumbag in order to get elected. Break up the press monopolies..... never again should the views of a non British media baron hold so much sway as to who governs this country!

DecentLivingWage

You're so right - and now Ed Miliband is finishing off the job! Get sick of hearing Camoron bleat 'when I set up the Leveson enquiry' when he had to be dragged over the coals to do it by labour and even now fighting against press regulation - still the Cons paid dearly for it in polls tho, and still haven't recovered... even Boris johnson,Dorries and Fabricant have warned about the coming defeat...

BertieUK

Wookster wrote: »

Announcing that he (Brown) was going to sell gold before he did so.

Negotiation of PFI contracts grossly in favour of the PFI "partner"

More seriously and insidiously Labour's solution to problems was to throw money at them, without demanding good value. This culture permeated most of what they embarked on in their 13 years in government.

Another good example of 'the pot calling the kettle black' typical banter when you are lost at sea, as always.

jonewer

Moby wrote: »

Its also so sad that in a so called 'democracy' we live in thrall to the interests of the bankers and bond markets.

We live in thrall to them because our politicians depend on them to finance public services.

Stop borrowing. Stop being in thrall to the spivs.

DecentLivingWage

Not surprised Labour Lead is so high after reading this - I don't know about anyone else on here (no matter how each chooses to vote) but I for one haven't felt as sick as I felt today when I read this. I genuinely felt ill and emotionally disturbed when I read it - something about it reminded me of old stasi war films. Newspaper article below - the lady volunteers seem lovely, not the sort who would lie?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/personal-finance/food-banks-desperate-families-walking-1473222

robmatic

Moby wrote: »

Thatchers corner shop economics again. When will they learn...life is not a balance sheet I'm afraid!
I have this picture in my head of Tories everywhere going round screaming at the top of their voices....the debt....the ...debt....the debt.
Its also so sad that in a so called 'democracy' we live in thrall to the interests of the bankers and bond markets. I just wish more people would get a backbone and stand up to these barrow boy types in their polyester stripey shirts...who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing!It doesn't have to be like this!

Surely the essence of democracy is making decisions on the collective wealth of society? It's when politicians (and both the Tories and Labour are guilty here) and the electorate rely on the magic money tree of debt that we manouvre ourselves into democratic unsustainability.