The Polls - Labour Lead At 14 - Is It The Economy?

Moby

Agree to some extent but I doubt if anyone expects a return to the welfare state (as it was). However there are more ways than one to skin a cat and plenty of historical examples of deleveraging in ways that takes into account social values and fairness. That's what's missing now. The current message is one of blame and depression rather than hope. America got out of the great depression with the New Deal. We are not Thatchers corner shop. Its actually far more complicated than that. We are now a very diverse country with very diverse interests and values and the Tories don't reflect those values. Look at their support base. There are huge swathes of the country to whom they have nothing to say? They are divisive and blaming and concentrate on negative messages about benefit scroungers etc. Whether there is truth in that message or not...its small minded in my view and will lead to social unrest. The fact is any govmt has a responsibility to the whole country and to give a positive message. When you are in a hole..... continually bleating about it and blaming the previous lot for it.... is not the way to go. They seem stuck in this loop though.

DecentLivingWage

Good piece on Osborne's blindness to the need for growth below - but question is , is it inexeperience and incompetence (the Cons /Ld are a Newbie Government after all) or is it deliberate railroading through, knowing the consequences but hoping against hope that NewsCorp deal/economic boom will suddenly appear?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/letters-osborne-blind-to-need-for-growth-8393585.html

Moby

Good article that. Shows up the lie that Labour Govmts always borrow more.

ILW

Can people not see that growth based purely on borrowing is of no use to anybody in the longer term. Just look at Browns "miracle" that was not much more than borrowing money to hire hoards of extra civil servants who produced nothing for the country.

Generali

Moby wrote: »

Good article that. Shows up the lie that Labour Govmts always borrow more.

It shows that Labour Governments 'always' (based on these 2 examples) leave the economy in terrible trouble. In 1979 and 2010 the UK economy was in the gutter.

I don't think that the current Government is doing a very good job but these examples are just partisan rubbish, it's like trying to have a discussion with a Fox News Republican.

DecentLivingWage

Not many people know that top Cons have already conceded defeat at the next election! They know they cant win! (Northern cities,boundary change failure,Lords,economy,labour's lead,Ukip, and a triple dip coming - they are Going For Broke!)

Generali

DecentLivingWage wrote: »

Not many people know that top Cons have already conceded defeat at the next election! They know they cant win! (Northern cities,boundary change failure,Lords,economy,labour's lead,Ukip, and a triple dip coming - they are Going For Broke!)

What gives you this inside track? Do 'top Cons' really discuss election strategy with Labour ideologues? It sounds unlikely.

jonewer

Moby wrote: »

America got out of the great depression with [STRIKE]the New Deal[/STRIKE] the wealth of the British Empire poured into its armaments factories

fixed that for you.

homelessskilledworker

DecentLivingWage wrote: »

Not many people know that top Cons have already conceded defeat at the next election! They know they cant win! (Northern cities,boundary change failure,Lords,economy,labour's lead,Ukip, and a triple dip coming - they are Going For Broke!)

Mmmmm, there is a lot that can happen and a lot that will probably happen before the next election, and by no means do Labour have it in the bag.
The polls are a waste of time right now, the fickle voter is doing what he always does, he/she just wants the present government to know how upset they are so they threaten to run off with the other man/woman.

I also suspect that UKIP will end up doing a deal the Tories as long as they get their referendum. I really cannot see the two Ed's geting into power, I can see the country doing a Kinnock at the last minute and bottling it. A part of me wants to see these two muppets get into power and then we will see how they are all things to all men, if the unions never behaved like a neglected wife who cannot get her own way the two Ed's would be finding out the hard way that there is no magical credit card like the one Tony(slimey) Blair and Gordon Brown had.

My personal preference would be to see UKIP pressure the Tories into a vote on Europe(which I will be part of the blackmailing votes), and then see someone solid like David Davies turf David Cameron out. This Country still needs some tough love, but it has to be done fairly. I have no doubts in my mind that anyone in the UK running their own business and who do their books, if they decide they have no intention paying more in tax then they were pre 2007 then they won't be. But the poor working population on the average wage are being stuffed more as the months go by bosses who give them no choice while they in many cases avoid what is due.

We shall see

jonewer

BobQ wrote: »

I was not saying money should be spent in the way that you indicate. Just that if you do spend money on such things it will stimulate the economy. I fail to see why you think defence exports do not help the economy.

Here's the problem.

We currently spend about £49bn a year on interest payments.

Thats more than we spend on defence.

Its considerably more than we spend on law and order.

Its twice what we spend on transport.

Its about 60% of what we spend on education.

Its about the same amount of tax as collected from fuel duties and VAT, and VED.

Its twice the revenue collected from council tax.

Its equal to the revenue collected from council tax and business rates combined.

Its roughly equal to the corporation tax take

Its roughly equal to excise duties

Its half the National insurance take

Its half the VAT take

Its roughly a third of the income tax take.

Now, this is getting worse every month. Every month the government borrows (on average) another £10bn.

The only reason this country is still solvent is because the bond markets like us.

The moment the yields on UK sovereign debt start to rise beyond 3% then its game over for us.